Replace this wall-hung combination boiler or redesign my system for heat and hot water?

floydo

I have a Baxi HT380 combination boiler (tankless wallhung) providing both DHW and baseboad heat throughout the house. Propane gas. Six zone. Maybe 2,300 square feet (total for two-story residence). We have 3 baths, but rarely use more than one. . The Baxi is probably 13 or 14 years old. Parts and service are getting hard to come by for Baxi boilers according to suppliers I’ve talked to. Waiting for the shoe to drop.
So I’m trying to think ahead toward replacement of the boiler. Wondering if I should get a replacement combination boiler from another maker ( Rinnai.... or other if you want to suggest one ) , or consider another system design and configuration going forward. I know that the latter would be more expensive (by far?) . What would you do if you might be in the house for the long haul? Be as specific as you like re alternative system setup, boiler and configuration. Thanks so much.. Anything will be appreciated. Here’s some info on the Baxi.
• Baxi Luna HT 380 is combination central heating and on-demand domestic hot water boiler (with DHW flow rate of 3.9 US gpm @ ( ▲T 80°F))

EBEBRATT-Ed

Post a few picture so we can see what your system looks like

hot_rod

I have that same unit at my mother in laws, it was sold as a Laars brand also. It must be pushing 16 years and has been 100% trouble free. They have Siemens controls and modules, maybe that is the key to the long life and problem free life? I think it is a 130,000 input?

At my house I have a Lochinvar Nobel 110 and an earlier Lochinvar Cadet 120 at my shop.

The house Nobel has a small 6 gallon buffer and it works fine with micro loads, the 110 BTU size provides enough DHW for two of us.

If the combi has been adequate for you all these years, consider a Lochinvar Nobel, it has a lot more control features and is a fire tube style HX.

There are many other brands of Combis out there with similar performance and features, many share the same internals.

tim smith

Hot rod, I too think the Nobel is a decent little unit. As long as not a lot of dhw demand. Btw, where you find the 6 gals buffer?

hot_rod

tim smith said:

Hot rod, I too think the Nobel is a decent little unit. As long as not a lot of dhw demand. Btw, where you find the 6 gals buffer?

The Lochinvar 6 gallon, probably most others have an upper and lower side port as well as some top ports and drain, and element.

I stuck a 5500 W element (18,755 BTU/ hr.) in mine for electric back up if I run out of LP, which I have

My local wholesaler stocks a lot of odd copper fittings and they have 3/4 mip x 1-1/4 copper adapters, so a quick easy increase for water heater side or top ports. The increasers in this tank may be some"homebuilt" as it looks like I silver soldered something together.

This is a two pipe buffer so that tube size close to the tank needs to be large, as it becomes a low loss header for both flows, boiler and system flows.

With max flow rate you would like to be below 2 fps there if you want to calculate that exact size.

Or a threaded swage nipple like these.

The brass swage actually came from a large BTU Munchkin. Many of those coil HX mod cons have 3/4 or 1" header, they use nipples like this to get you to 1-1/4 or larger.

SuperTech

I'd like to see pictures of the current setup as well. If efficiency is the most important thing to you then get another wall mounted mod- con. Preferably with a fire tube heat exchanger.
If reliability and long lifespan is what you are after then consider a cast iron boiler. If maintained properly it can last three times as long as that Baxi did.
If you are going to stick with the baseboards I would look into an Energy Kinetics boiler or another non condensing boiler. In my opinion mod cons are best suited for high mass systems like radiant flooring or cast iron radiatiors.

floydo

Here's a photo

hot_rod

In the pic it is running 57C, 134F SWT. If is maintains the home comfortably on the coldest day at that temperature then a mod con will provide high efficiencies.

I think you mentioned 14 years and it still runs fine, you are more concerned with repair parts going forward.

So I guess do you feel you got your monies worth at 14- 15 years of service?

I suspect most boilers, going forward, will be hard to find repair parts for after 15 years? Maybe that is the number manufacturers shoot for now as a sunset date for an appliance?

superdave

Where are you located?? The biggest problem I see is supply houses changing brand names all the time and telling you this is the best thing since sliced bread. The best thing to ask your heating guy is how long have you been using the product line and do you keep parts on hand. I must say though I have been installing Baxi for about 18 years and have great luck with it. This is the only brand we install. But I am a firm believer that if its installed right it will last a long time. Also I believe on proactive maintenance over reactive maintenance.

floydo

thanks for your comments all. Superdave...what part of the country are you in ? I'm up in NH and so far it seems that pats and service is for Baxi is becoming an issue up here. Of course everyone is so busy...which isn't a bad thing.

kcopp

Where in NH? Im in Dover. The only place I thing that stocks parts is Laconia Winnelson….maybe Blodgett in Concord.

Tom_133

Blodgetts does stock Baxi parts still and there are still a few places online to get them, but floydo is correct they are becoming more and more difficult to get. I have 20 or so of these units out there, and really they have been trouble free. The most difficult part was always tuning them due to how quick they come up to temp and the style gas valve which needed high and low setup.

hot_rod

Seems like Baxi is getting more serious about the US market. They are usually one of the top 3 boiler producers worldwide.

kcopp

Baxi I thought had at one time NA headquarters in Toronto. They had a partnership w/ Laars but somewhere along the way that went south.... Many parts were interchangeable.

hot_rod

kcopp said:

Baxi I thought had at one time NA headquarters in Toronto. They had a partnership w/ Laars but somewhere along the way that went south.... Many parts were interchangeable.

Looks like maybe Baxi merger or was acquired by another company? I saw a prototype with a sterling engine up at a Toronto research center years back. I visited their booth at the ISH show years back and they had a lot of unique product, not much makes it's way over here.

I think Laars private labeled the HT series, I have one down at the mother in laws, been flawless service only twice in about 12 years.

floydo

I'm just south of Conway. The guy who installed my Baxi left town years ago. Haven't found anyone local these days to do maintenance and repairs. It is running ok now.....except for a whine or hum emanating from inside the boiler( cause?) ....that comes and goes. I'd like to follows SuperDave's advice and be proactive , Beyond that, I'm trying to figure out what's next.....if/when the Baxi's all done. It has been suggested to me that Rinnai M-series combi boilers and Viessmann ( not sure which model) would be good substitutes if Baxi becomes a bad option. Thoughts? Thanks SuperTech for recommending this: "an Energy Kinetics boiler or another non condensing boiler. In my opinion mod cons are best suited for high mass systems like radiant flooring or cast iron radiatiors." I'd love more input on that. Meanwhile......Kcopp and Tom 133 and others..............if you know someone who does come up this way to service Baxi or if you think Winnelsons or Blodgett may...let me know. Thanks all .

bob eck

I have a Triangle Tube Prestige Excellence PE110 in my house going on it’s 10th Heating season. The warranty will be up on the SS heat exchanger and on the indirect built into this boiler.
My local natural gas utility is offering $1800 cash rebate for installing an 94% AFUE natural gas combi boiler. I plan on installing an Lochinvar Noble combi boiler next summer.
Knock on wood if the main control on my TT boiler goes now that control is not cheap. The controls on today’s condensing combi boilers and condensing heat boiler only has come a long way in 10 years.
Vaughn has an 10 gallon buffer tank all the way up to 119 gallon buffer tank.
Combi boiler the domestic output is limited. The Noble 110 will deliver 2.6 GPM at 70 temp rise and will run shower after shower. Noble 150 delivers 3.6 GPM and 199 delivers 4.8 GPM at 70 degree temp rise. If installing the bigger model Noble you can derate the heating BTU input to match the house BTU load and when there is a call for domestic the boiler will fire all the way to highest BTU input.
One other thing about combi boilers is if the boiler goes down you are out of heat and hot water. I was considering installing an electric water heater so Incase the boiler goes down at least I would still have domestic hot water with the electric water heater unit the boiler is fixed. The contractor and wholesaler need to stock parts for the boilers they sell and install.
If you prefer and condensing heating boiler and an indirect water heater if the boiler goes down there again you are out of hot water until the boiler is fixed. Vaughn and other indirect water heater manufacturers build indirect water heaters with an coil and electric elements. Should always have domestic hot water. You the professional heating contractor you can give your customers choices on the type of boiler and domestic water heating system you install for them. Give them options and explain the reason you are using certain products and you don’t always have to be the lowest bidder.

BaxiBoilersDOTcom

Hello,
I work for Baxi Boilers and I’d be happy to help you out in any way.
Regarding parts: they are readily available. You can visit the web site www.baxiboilers.com.
There you can not only find where to buy parts, but also parts diagrams for all current and legacy products. You can contact us through that web site as well.
I hope this helps.

floydo

Thanks, BaxiBoilersDOTcom If you can get me connected with an experienced Baxi service tech up here that would be great. I thought i had found a guy ( in nearby Fryeburg Maine) but he's too busy to take on another client right now.

superdave

Sorry for being M. I. A. Benn up in the Merrimack valley doing inspections. Are you LP or NG. Also do you have any photos to see the system piping. Is the sound on start up high fire or low fire and if it sounds like a tuba sound. need a full tune up. I am out of Quincy MA. Biggest thing is when you have it tuned up you need to make sure they have a combustion analyzer.