heat control system with averaged in-apartment sensors

teddyjefferson

Hi
Im in a 7 floor pre war building w one pipe steam in NYC

Does anyone recommend any of the heat control systems that use an average of a set of in-apartment temperature sensors (to replace current heat timer epu-ch).

Also, has anyone come up with a system using a residential thermostat connected with a group of in-apartment sensors (to save cost)

thanks

nicholas bonham-carter

The Honeywell VisionPro can have 4 wired sensors, but I would take some measurements of the range of temperatures in different apartments at the same time.
It is possible that you have an unbalanced system, due to bad main venting, and the sensors will not compensate for that.
Some indoor and outdoor wireless thermometers can keep track of the temperatures recorded by the base and the remote(s).--NBC

gfrbrookline

I agree with NBC, make sure you have enough venting both on mains and risers and that you don't have over vented radiators. It took me a while to balance things, we went from a 10 degree imbalance to being within 1 degree from proper venting.

I have a Honeywell Vision Pro 8000 with 5 wireless sensors that averages the temperature to control the boiler. Its a bit of a pain to do but it also lets you see what the temperature in each unit is so you can verify tenants complaints.

nicholas bonham-carter

That verification is most important as the feel of temperature is so subjective. Giving them an accurate digital thermometer would enable them to see for themselves, before calling the super!--NBC

gfrbrookline

I couldn't agree more. We had one owner who was stating it was well into the 90's, the sensor read 76 before we adjusted the vents.

teddyjefferson

Many thanks to all of you.
The problem is that the building gradually overheats during the day and there is no mechanism in the Heat Timer EPU CH for a lock out triggered by in-apartment temp, only by the return steam line pipe temp, which cools differently from an apartment.

The problem has to do with the way our building retains heat. Turning down the settings simply leave the building cold early and comfortable later.
The building is well balanced in radiator size and appropriately vented and insulated.

I know Heat Timer and Tekmar and some other places install systems with 4 averaging in apartment sensors and am curious how they work and what the cost is.
thanks

nicholas bonham-carter

I have no faith in the heatimer system from what I have gleaned here.
Many heatimer controls were sold to fix the imbalance caused by lack of main venting, and were ineffective at that solution.—NBC

JohnNY

I've got several Heat-Timer MPC systems installed in buildings in New York. There's a reason they're everywhere in the city. The above posters are absolutely correct in that you've got to have a well-functioning stand-alone steam heating system first before you try to control it with outside equipment, but the multiple wireless sensors and additional relays should make it a serious contender when trying to control any medium-to-larger system.

teddyjefferson

thanks. you have any idea how it compares with other interior-temp averaging systems?

JohnNY

teddyjefferson said:

thanks. you have any idea how it compares with other interior-temp averaging systems?

Compare in what way? They're all within a couple hundred dollars of each other and the functionality of the MPC is, currently, far beyond the tekmar 279 or anything offered by Fuel Watchman. The web-based HT dashboard allows me to make changes to any settings or just monitor my clients' buildings from where ever I am. I can answer their questions or refute a tenant's claims of cold areas by sending screenshots of multiple wireless sensors' readings in minutes. It's a great system.

DavidMarasow

There are a few companies out there that will come in and set you up with a custom system.
I’m not in any way vouching for them, as I have my issues with them....

Entech digital controls
There is us energy group
BGS
There are a few more....
I fee they are expensive but they do the job your looking for....

teddyjefferson

thanks