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Laars Mascot FT vs HTP UFT

GroundUpGroundUp Posts: 516Member
My local supply house has informed me they will no longer be carrying HTP because nobody else buys them and I don't buy enough. I can order them from out of state but I don't much care for that idea in the event I need some support, plus I would need to field convert to LP as they only come NG. Another local supplier carries Laars Mascot FT which I understand to be quite similar to the UFT and can be ordered either LP or NG for the same price. They are also a bit less costly to purchase than the UFT but not really enough to matter. Biggest difference I see is the 10:1 vs 5:1 TDR, but I haven't physically looked inside a Mascot yet; anybody have any nice pointers or information on which might be a better option? I really like the UFT and have installed about a dozen this year, but quite honestly the lack of local support and field LP conversion deal kinda bothers me. Then again, I'm not fond of going back to a 5:1 TDR either. Anybody been playing with the Mascot FT? Thanks

Comments

  • GroundUpGroundUp Posts: 516Member
    Nobody. Zero people have experience with a Mascot?
  • NY_RobNY_Rob Posts: 1,369Member
    When I first started looking at mod-cons in 2015 I was told that the Mascot was a re-badged HTP UFT. It's odd that the smaller Mascot's only have a 5:1 turndown vs. 10:1 on all the HTP and the Westinghouse UFT clones. Maybe the mascot is based on an early gen HTP UFT model?

    I would still go with HTP..
    Spend $1K on spare parts for your own private stash (control boards, sensors, etc) and order the boilers from "out of state".
    As far as "support"... that goes through the factory up in Mass anyway, so no loss there.
  • GroundUpGroundUp Posts: 516Member
    Thanks Rob, I did consider just keeping a spare unit on hand to rob parts from and replace them after the fact. As for my "support" issue, I just meant the idea of running to town and buying a boiler if I need to, versus waiting a week or more to get one from the online vendor. I guess if I get in a pinch I can always substitute a Mascot since they're on the shelf 45 minutes away and learn the curve afterward, if there is one. I was just hoping for some experience on them. The TDR difference tells me there's at least one thing different about them lol
  • NY_RobNY_Rob Posts: 1,369Member
    Makes you wonder why your supply house is willing to stock the Laars and not the HTP boiler?
  • GroundUpGroundUp Posts: 516Member
    Different supply houses. The one I convinced to carry HTP only carried Buderus previously, and after 10 months I am literally the only person who has bought any HTP from them so they are dropping them because they don't sell enough. Across town they've been carrying IBC and Laars a couple years, but say they don't sell many of either. In this neck of the woods everybody is still scared of modulation and condensing technology, so it's all 80% stuff even with radiant floors. I'm trying to change that, little by little. Commercially (my real job) we use primarily Lochinvar and they've been awesome, but that's a REAL tough sell for me residentially (side job) around here due to the price tag. The additional cost of a Loch over an HTP is 10% of most people's annual income around here so you'd be hard pressed to find anything but an 80% Slant Fin anywhere nearby. When you're 50 miles from a Wal-Mart, word travels pretty slow lol. Not to mention the other 3 heating guys in my area are all 100 years old and don't care to learn anything new
  • NY_RobNY_Rob Posts: 1,369Member
    Sounds like you're in a tough spot!

    The guys close to retirement don't want to get involved... so you'll just have to wait them out.

    I was originally going to go with a Loc too, but at literally half the cost I went with the HTP, so I understand your predicament.

    Maybe time to go "all in" and be your own HTP supplier?

    Have you gotten any complaints from your HTP customers or are they happy with the system and the savings?
  • GroundUpGroundUp Posts: 516Member
    Zero complaints. Everybody has been happy thus far. Thanks to the gentlemen here I was able to start doing my own combustion analysis instead of paying someone, which has gotten me a good handle on what they like and how they run. I haven't been doing the HTP thing for very long at all, and the majority of the feedback I have has been DHW/indirect applications so it remains to be seen.
  • LaarsLaars Posts: 5Member
    edited August 2018
    Thank you for inquiring about the Laars Mascot FT unit. The HTP and the Laars Mascot FT are similar products. The Mascot FT, depending on the size and model, comes in either a 5:1 or a 10:1. turndown.

    Our Mascot FT brochure can be downloaded here.
    https://www.laars.com/images/uploads/products/1309D-NH.pdf

    If you have additional questions, our local rep would be happy to assist. They can be found here. https://www.laars.com/support/sales-representatives

    If you have installation questions, or questions about the Mascot FT product, our phone tech support and applications advisors can also assist. Our people are located in Rochester NH. 603-335-6300

    Combi Boilers:
    MFTCW140 - 5:1 Turndown
    MFTCW199 - 10:1 Turndown

    Heating Only Boilers:
    MFTHW80-140 - 5:1 Turndown
    MFTHW199- 10:1 Turndown

  • NY_RobNY_Rob Posts: 1,369Member
    Not the OP... but why do the smaller Laars models have only 5:1 turndown and the small HTP UFT's feature 10:1 turndown?
  • GroundUpGroundUp Posts: 516Member
    Thank you @Laars . I too, am wondering why the smaller units such as an MFTHW80 only carry a 5:1 TDR while the UFT-80 carries a 10:1. Very seldom do my installations get above 140k, so the 5:1 range of boilers are the majority. Could you please shed some light on that? Thank you! I did speak with the rep closest to me awhile back and they were unable to answer my questions at that point.
  • Robert O'BrienRobert O'Brien Posts: 3,119Member
    Great support by Laars and their local rep here on Long Island!
    To learn more about this professional, click here to visit their ad in Find A Contractor.
  • GroundUpGroundUp Posts: 516Member
    In case anyone cares, I did finally get my mitts on a Mascot FT and finished installation tonight for an 8 loop radiant slab in a pole shed. They are similar to the UFT, but definitely not just rebadged as I had thought. A few differences:

    The CH supply and return lines are the same distance off the wall instead of staggered like the UFT which I found to be handy, and there are only bottom ports- none on top.

    There is no provision for the relief valve on top nor the black iron fittings with it, it needs to be cut into the piping somewhere.

    There is an onboard circ and they require P/S piping

    They are shipped NG but come with the LP conversion nozzle in the box

    They do not come with the short length of CPVC for the flue

    5:1 TDR

    Different induction and fuel mixer, no flapper to break off like the UFT



    Aside from that- they utilize the same housing, control, HX, wiring and sensors. Many parts are shared, but definitely a different boiler

  • NY_RobNY_Rob Posts: 1,369Member
    Sounds interesting.... any photos?
  • GroundUpGroundUp Posts: 516Member
    NY_Rob said:

    Sounds interesting.... any photos?

    Mmmmm, no. I have a tendency to want to go home and always forget to take pictures. Worked from 4am to noon at my regular job yesterday and then from 2 to 10:30 on this thing- all I wanted was my couch lol. I think I may have a picture from when I first hung it and started piping but nothing from last night
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