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5/8" PB adapters

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Does anyone have a source for 5/8" PB adapters? Ideally, they would be 5/8" PB x 3/4" PEX, but I'll take anything.

8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour

Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab

Comments

  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,256
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    SharkBite has PB transition fittings. This sheet gives insertion spec for 5/8 fittings, but I don't see a part # for a 5/8?

    It may be worth an e-mail to them?

    http://www.sharkbite.com/sharkbite/wp-content/uploads/SB_Push-to-Connect_SpecSheet_Polybutylene-Transition-Couplings_01252017.pdf
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
    Alan (California Radiant) Forbes Member Posts: 4,050
    edited July 2018
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    Thanks, hot rod! I checked and Sharkbite doesn't make any for 5/8". Neither does John Guest.

    There's got to be something available, laying around on a supplier's shelf gathering dust and forgotten.
    8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour

    Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab
  • GroundUp
    GroundUp Member Posts: 1,926
    edited July 2018
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    I've had success with pex crimp fittings and doubled rings on 1", nut sure on the 5/8" but I'd imagine the same rule applies
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,256
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    Here is a piece of 1/2 PB with a pex fitting and two pex crimp rings, it holds 40 psi water test.

    I tried a Viega stainless cup style crimp collar, no go.

    So I'll bet 5/8 pex fittings and two pex crimp rings would get you by, especially with 10- 15 psi. I can't see any difference between the PB and PEX crimp rings. PB are copper color with a PB stamp, PEX are black coated.

    Make sure the crimp tool is calibrated,maybe give the adjusting screw an extra tweek.

    The PB is a smaller ID, so the fitting is loose, but the ring takes up the tolerance mis-match.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
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    Thank you, GroundUp and hot rod. I think that's a great solution.
    8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour

    Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab
  • GroundUp
    GroundUp Member Posts: 1,926
    edited July 2018
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    I guess the way Hot Rod did it would not have been sufficient in the case I used it. PB has a larger ID and thinner wall than pex so the fitting is loose in the pipe and a single crimp would not cut the mustard for me as I could still pull the fitting right out by hand. My instance was just a regular crimp like a pex joint, but then take the second ring and split it, slide it over the first ring and crimp again. So the rings are stacked, and the inner (first) ring is now squeezed tighter due to the extra ring thickness. I'm talking pex rings by the way, as I don't carry PB parts
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,256
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    Another trick, I took my 3/4 expander put it inside this 3/4 tee and expanded it until it was a tight push fit into the PB. It needs to be a copper fitting not brass :) If you can even find 5/8 pex couplings anymore?

    I don't have any 5/8 tube or fittings to try.

    It looks like our PAB manifold nuts crimps down tight enough also. I could build a coupling to send and try. Or send me some 5/8 tube to try.

    One last thought, try Michael Wilburn at High valley Supply in CO. They bought the rights to Infloor a number of years back, he might know a work-around as Infloor sold a lot of PB systems back in the day. I'll bet he gets this question often.

    info@hi-valley
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
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    Damn, that's creative.

    I'll try High Valley on Monday. Excellent suggestion!
    8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour

    Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab
  • EYoder
    EYoder Member Posts: 60
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    I've run into a lot of 1/2" and 3/4" PB in 80's double-wides around here. Never seen 5/8".
    A stainless pex cinch ring can be adjusted down tighter than a copper crimp ring, so that might work if you're trying to use 5/8" pex couplings.
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,256
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    PB runs like copper tube, CTS
    So 1/2” PB would be 5/8 OD

    5/8 would be about 3/4 OD
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • EYoder
    EYoder Member Posts: 60
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    That's what I was wondering, are we talking about 1/2" PB?
  • GroundUp
    GroundUp Member Posts: 1,926
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    I was thinking that also. Sharkbites fit 1/2" PB perfectly, I just assumed there was a 5/8" nominal I'd never seen
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,256
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    GroundUp said:

    I was thinking that also. Sharkbites fit 1/2" PB perfectly, I just assumed there was a 5/8" nominal I'd never seen

    I don't think SharkBite approves the use of the fitting with PB, even with the internal stiffeners?
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    kcopp
  • EYoder
    EYoder Member Posts: 60
    edited July 2018
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    I've seen some brands with a larger grey/blue stiffener specifically made for PB.
    But I'd use a crimp adapter any day.
    kcopp
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,256
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    Confusing info at SharkBite, they show that is not listed for PB, but have a training video on how to use it on PB?

    Of course the trainer is under water :)

    If in fact it is 5/8 they don't offer that size from what I can find.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmYjHD_b410
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • GroundUp
    GroundUp Member Posts: 1,926
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    I've got a handful of their couplings under my house as we speak, that have been there 10+ years holding 60 PSI domestic pressure on PB. Someone had told me back then that they were the only thing that fit PB so I bought it, and they were correct. I wouldn't put a Shark in an inaccessible space for any reason, but these are doing well in my unfinished basement. Just the regular CTS couplings, not the adapters in the video. Can't remember what color the stiffener was, but I remember it being snug. I know of a few that are still being used in an outdoor boiler application on 1" PB as well, 8-10 years later
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,256
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    I think the issues there is no way for a manufacturer to build and list a PB fitting since ASTM pulled back all the standards that had been established for PB and fittings. PB was removed from codebooks, IPC in 2009.

    So while they may work, you would be on your own for any liability resulting from a failure. You might risk that in your own home, but maybe not for a customer in this sue happy society? Might as well use inexpensive barbed couplings and hose clamps from the hardware store, probably hold better :)

    The 950 million $ Shell settlement ran dry around 1995, so no recourse anymore for HOs with PB failures.

    PB fitting and tube failures were possibly chlorine and chloramine related. Used in hydronics if those chemicals were not constantly being added, the PB tube seems to be holding up well.

    Seems like it is getting harder and harder to find a piping material that can hold up to all the various water and treatment conditions it is exposed to these days. Kryptonite coated glass tube maybe.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    kcopp
  • Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
    Alan (California Radiant) Forbes Member Posts: 4,050
    edited July 2018
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    Turns out to be PEX pipe; installed in 1993. Couldn't find a manufacturer's name.

    I've got to stop i.d.ing pipe by its color.


    8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour

    Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,256
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    a sigh of relief
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream