System 2000 vs. Buderus w/Indirect vs. Trio3 w/Hybrid Electric

mkarhan

I am in the process of replacing the existing heating unit I have, and have three different quotes on potential new systems. Can you all help me determine which might be the best unit to switch over to ?

SuperTech

I really like the system 2000. Extremely efficient, very easy to clean, reliable and quiet. You can also switch it to gas by changing the burner. I don't think you can go wrong with an Energy Kinetics boiler.

AnthraciteEnergetics

Heat pump electric water heater in the boiler room with whatever boiler you want. It will put the jacket and piping losses into your DHW during winter and cool the space in summer. Unless your oil is very cheap and/or electric very expensive or you use a huge amount of DHW, or live in a very cold climate, the indirect setups are a lot of extra complexity to add to a heat pump water heater (what you meant by "Hybrid", I assume).

mkarhan

Yes, a heat pump heater is what I meant by hybrid. We live in southern Vermont and the oil is not inexpensive.

lchmb

If your looking for the Hybrid for hw. it may be worth while to go with the system 2k. Very efficient boiler and very quiet. But make sure whoever service's it is familiar with the unit.. then if they hybrid doesnt work out you have an excellent boiler that can make hw all day

HVACNUT

Which System 2000? Frontier or Resolute? The Resolute is 90+% efficient and non condensing. It gets my vote. And that's coming from someone who installed more Buderus G115 and G215 boilers than I care to count.

DanHolohan

I think the service from Energy Kinetics is superb. I'm still trying to hear our System 2000 running. It's remarkably quiet.

mkarhan

I believe it is the unit that is rated 85.2% , probably the Frontier model.

mkarhan

We have a two zone ranch style house with about 1800-2000 sq feet. I am just trying to figure out what system will be best for our future, as or kids are out of the house and on their own in a year or so. We will not demand a lot of hot water each day, I guess I am just confused as to the pros and cons of each. "The heat pump electric requires wiring and new plumbing, the System 2000 is specific and not all other heating companies may be familiar with it, and and indirect system is the least efficient.' These are things I have heard thus far, need some help!

SuperTech

I'm sure the company that quoted you a System 2000 will be familiar with servicing it. The burner is a regular Beckett AFG that any competent technician will be familiar with. I wouldn't bother with the heat pump water heater if you don't use a lot of domestic hot water. Just make sure you do your homework on the installer of whatever boiler you choose.

Roger

Thank you for your question, mkarhan.

In general, the 90+ Resolute is ideal if you want the best oilheat efficiency (up to 91% compared to up to 88% for the Frontier System 2000), or if you have to line a chimney or want a sidewall vent. Otherwise both are whisper quiet and have nearly endless hot water. They also use nearly all industry standard components, and the Energy Manager Control has a limited lifetime protection plan.

Regarding a heat pump water heater, the high efficiency (UEF around 3) comes from extracting “excess heat” from the surrounding room and venting cool exhaust air to the room; this actually cools the room with the water heater (although some models vent outside). Our boilers are very well insulated so there is very little “excess heat” in the boiler room – the heat is directed into your living spaces instead, so there is not waste heat for the heat pump water heater that may be found with many other boilers.

A back of the envelope cost comparison with Vermont electricity at $0.178/kWh from EIA sources (oil equivalent of $7.23 per gallon on a per BTU basis) at 300% efficiency is $2.41 per gallon of oil equivalent for hot water with a heat pump. During heating months, this price may have a higher equivalent as the heat extracted from the room may need to be replaced by heat generated from the boiler. During non-heating months, there may be some air conditioning and an ambient air drying effect. Vermont oil is about $2.80 now, so this would compare to the $2.41 equivalent at a about $3.50 per gallon with the Frontier and 90+ Resolute hot water efficiency. Maybe annual savings of $50 to $80 per year with the heat pump water heater, although the life expectancy is shorter than the boiler hot water system.

I hope this helps clear up some of your questions.

I’m sure you’re in good hands with your Energy Kinetics dealer, although also please feel free to call us for more information, or message me and I can put you in touch with our territory manager who can also help out.

Thank you,
Roger
President, Energy Kinetics

newagedawn

buderus w/indirect is a great money saver, provided its installed properly

GBart

I have a System 2000 with a SuperStor SS 20gal indirect, piped with 1" all the way to indirect, zv, etc, I get way over 200gph ( rated 168hr) of hot water and can fill my 400gal hot tub, I also cut my fuel consumption by 30%

Big Ed_4

I would recommend the Buderus , Logomatic , Riello ... Reliable , easy to clean and it would out last you...

Unknown

This content has been removed.

mkarhan

Thank you all for your input!!

Roger

You're welcome, mkarhan.

As a follow up / correction to my post on March 8, I've read additional Department of Energy reports on heat pump water heater field performance in cold climates that indicate the average Coefficient of Performance is in the range of 1.61 to 2.32 for the models tested (even without considering the additional heating load imposed on the conditioned space). Although this efficiency is impressive (similar to 161% and 232%), these field results indicate that savings with a heat pump water heater would not occur over the oil systems mentioned at the fuel prices and use rates I cited. Sorry for any confusion I may have caused by referencing the 300% rated HPWH efficiency and overstating the potential results.

For reference, here's one report from the U.S. Department of Energy office of Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy, "Field Performance of Heat Pump Water Heaters in the Northeast", February 2016: https://www1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/publications/pdfs/building_america/64904.pdf

Roger