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Water Rushing Noise - Woke me up this morning - splendid!

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  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,542
    edited March 2018
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    I also see from one of your earlier pictures that you have a Cyclegard Low Water Cut-off on the boiler. A Cyclegard or (psycho gard) they will shut the boiler down every few minutes to check the water level. Most people will change them out for a Safegard which does not shut the burner down.
  • jkevinholmes
    jkevinholmes Member Posts: 20
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    @Fred thanks for all that info! I have New England SteamWorks coming to take a look over the whole system and they are going to service the boiler, pigtail, sight glass... etc. So I will likely wait for them, just seemed very odd considering it was so different from the pressure settings we adjusted!

    Would that indeed cause the boiler to short cycle as it is getting an artificially high pressure reading?

    Not sure on the thermostat, I never changed it, just set the temperature times!
    https://www.enviro-tec.com/pdf/iom/honeywell-69-1714.pdf

    That appears to be the manual, but I was nervous about what to adjust, it seems like I would have to go through the setup process, and don’t want to screw anything up!

    Would you recommend going through setup, and if so is there anything I should adjust? Besides steam system and cph value?

    Thanks!
  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,542
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    @jkevinholmes , yes, go to Function #5 and change it to "1". That will take care of the thermostat. I really suspect that Cyclegard Low Water Cut -off is what shut your boiler down while you were in the basement coupled with the thermostat setting (CPH) being set at 5 cycles per hour which really tightens up the temp swing, making the boiler fire much more frequently. Ask New England SteamWorks about changing out that LWCO for you. He probably carries some spare Safegards on his truck.
    jkevinholmesadasilva
  • jkevinholmes
    jkevinholmes Member Posts: 20
    edited March 2018
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    Ok, now I am sad! This was the situation this morning. I think it was even bothering Watson at the end!

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/zzsyNuMRx2vOW48p1

    It sounds like the water is in the radiator, should I attempt to pitch it further?

    Also, @Fred dead right it was set to 5 CPH! I changed it to 1 for now.

    Should I adjust setting number one, it’s set to “0” even thought I don’t have air conditioning!

    Regards!

    Joe
  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,542
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    @jkevinholmes , yes, you can set function #1 to "2". I don't think it makes any difference though, but might as well set it correctly.
    I listened to your video. I'm not sure it sounds like water. Sounds more like air rushing across that radiator. What type vent do you have on that radiator? If it's an aggressive one or fully open, it might cause some of that noise but it could very well be one of a couple other things:
    1. water pooling in the supply pipe, under the fool causing the steam to condense in that pipe and making a panting noise that radiates into that radiator.
    2. The pigtail below the Pressuretrol is clogged and the steam pressure is still running much higher than it should because the Pressuretrol can't see the actual system pressure.
    New England Steam Works is excellent! He'll be able to resolve any of the issues he finds.
  • jkevinholmes
    jkevinholmes Member Posts: 20
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    @Fred thanks again! It’s a Home Depot special, we replaced it in hope of getting the radiator to throw off more heat! The old one was pretty gunked up so I think it was a good start, but a better valve is likely needed.

    Picture for reference, and it was set just above half, I’ll drop it to a quarter and see if that makes a difference.

    And yes, New England will be in soon enough... worst case I’ll just wait! Thanks again for everything! This website is great!

    Joe
  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,542
    edited March 2018
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    Those vents from Home Depot and Lowes are Junk (with a capital J). They are made in China and, if they work, it's only for a month or two. Buy a Vent-rite #1 or a Hoffman 1A. They are adjustable and last for years. The Hoffman 1A may be a "second Choice" as the new ones click every time they open and close. I think they changed the metals they were using or something so if you are especially sensitive to any noises, the Vent-rite is the better choice.

    Is this radiator on the first floor? Can you see the supply pipe from the basement? Does that supply pipe look like it is pitched back towards the Main? It needs to be. It looks like it is copper which isn't ideal for a steam system. Soldered joints tend to start to leak over time due to expansion/contraction but until it starts to leak, it may not be worth replacing. Just try to get some pitch to it.
  • jkevinholmes
    jkevinholmes Member Posts: 20
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    I had a sneaking suspicion that the venting could be an issue.

    I lowered the vent setting to 1/4 (from around 3/4) and that seemed to help quite a bit, sounded more like just a slow rush of air compared to the sounds in the video (like an air conditioner in a car on the lowest setting).

    So am I understanding correctly that if the vent is open to much, it is essentially hogging steam from the system and creating a vacuum to suck steam into that radiator?

    There is a local supply house that has the Vent-rite 1 adjustable, so I will grab one today and put it in later this evening.

    http://www.republicsupplyco.com/Heating-Cooling-md2/Air-Valves-d76/1-AIR-VALVE-18-ADJUSTABLE-STEAM-p9923
    ^That look right to you?^

    Anything to be aware of with that - or just tape around it and install like the other? What setting would you recommend off the bat, understanding that 1/4 seemed to work fairly well on the Home Depot Special.

    Thanks Again All!

    - Joe
  • ImYoungxD
    ImYoungxD Member Posts: 130
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    Or you can buy 3 or 5 PSI from Amazon
    https://www.amazon.com/Kodiak-Controls-KC25-3-Pressure-Gauge/dp/B00H9ZWLZG/ref=pd_sim_328_5?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00H9ZWLZG&pd_rd_r=5D5BH7GBA5NFR5R54K6M&pd_rd_w=xfbHb&pd_rd_wg=ypKZY&psc=1&refRID=5D5BH7GBA5NFR5R54K6M
    Free shipping

    I bought a used, like new for $28. It was brand new without the original packaging.
  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,542
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    @jkevinholmes , yes that's the right vent. Be leary of buying used vents or those that are possibly new but no packaging. They are usually returns for one reason or another. It's the luck of the draw and just not worth the hassle to save a few dollars.
    When a radiator vent vents too fast, it can rob steam from other radiators, cause a room to be too hot and worse case, cause the steam to race across the top or bottom of a radiator and close the vent before all the air has been pushed out of the radiator, making only the top or bottom of the radiator warm/hot and the rest of it cool.
  • jkevinholmes
    jkevinholmes Member Posts: 20
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    @Fred Thank you for all of your continued help and information. You are a wealth of information, and you don't make me feel stupid for not knowing this stuff!!

    I have lowered the setting on the crappy Home Depot vent, and have not experienced any of those symptoms again, yet. Thinking back - the rushing noise only started after we switched the vent - so DUH!

    I picked up a vent-rite 1 yesterday and will install that this week, and will likely start with the adjustment around 3.

    New England Steam Works is set to come in the next week or so, and hopefully make some of the other adjustments/recommendations.

    You guys have all been very helpful - and I thank you all!!

    -Joe
  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,542
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    @jkevinholmes , I'm so glad we could help! @New England SteamWorks , will tell you what you need to get you to the finish line, for sure!
    New England SteamWorksjkevinholmes
  • jkevinholmes
    jkevinholmes Member Posts: 20
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    Today @New England SteamWorks (Ryan and his helper, Josh) came to help lower my return line, install some vents, service my boiler, and provide a general assessment of my system!

    As expected there were numerous areas for improvement, and my system was certainly not dead-men certified - however, I can not say enough how friendly, knowledgeable, and willing to help Ryan was. Absolutely true to this forum, he took time in explaining different problem areas without making me feel like an idiot for not knowing things, and together we came up with a plan moving forward with ways to improve efficiency and quiet the system down!

    I am hoping I can have some of Ryan's near boiler artwork as a statement piece in my home one day - maybe I'll put a window to the basement so others can see his work.

    I would not hesitate to have him back to do any work that I might need!

    Anyone in the New England area, put @New England SteamWorks on your list of people to call - you will NOT be disappointed.

    -Joe





    adasilva
  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,542
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    Glad he was able to make it there. I knew you would be pleased!

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