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Water heater demand

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I have a customer who runs a brewery . He has always had hot water issues . He needs 170 degree water for 1 hr constant using 3 hoses to clean the tanks . The hoses have heads on them that put out 10-15 gpm . Needless to say he runs out of hot water pretty fast with what he’s got now . Can anyone help me . I was thinking of putting in lochinvar armor condensing heater with storage tank or tanks . Or Ao smith gwh -1000 boiler with storage tank .

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  • Nycwrenchturn
    Nycwrenchturn Member Posts: 19
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    Come one guys . Need little help here
  • Robert O'Brien
    Robert O'Brien Member Posts: 3,541
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    15 GPM times 60 minutes equals 900 GPH. 900 gallons times 8.34 lbs per gallon equals 7506 lbs. 7506 times 125 degree rise equals 938,250 BTU/hr.
    To learn more about this professional, click here to visit their ad in Find A Contractor.
  • Nycwrenchturn
    Nycwrenchturn Member Posts: 19
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    Ok . But each head does 10-15 gpm so it’s triple that
  • Nycwrenchturn
    Nycwrenchturn Member Posts: 19
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    Not sure if there is a feasible system for this guy
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,251
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    cut back on the flow at the hoses, or 3 mil boiler
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    Canuckerdelta T
  • Nycwrenchturn
    Nycwrenchturn Member Posts: 19
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    Or i was thinking of splitting the hoses to two different systems . And not having all three work off of one heater
  • Leonard
    Leonard Member Posts: 903
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    Question why he needs nossels with 10-15 gpm, that's a lot of flow.

    Maybe suggest better nossel. Higher speed jets to clean better with less flow. Had similar solution for distilled water rinse station at work once.
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,251
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    a few choices
    lower the load
    split the load
    storage for the dump load
    a bank of tankless

    seem more and more breweries are going to low pressure steam boilers
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Nycwrenchturn
    Nycwrenchturn Member Posts: 19
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    That’s a great point Leonard
  • flat_twin
    flat_twin Member Posts: 350
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    Would steam do the job and not require the huge volume he uses now?
  • Nycwrenchturn
    Nycwrenchturn Member Posts: 19
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    He has a low pressure steam boiler in the now with 119 gallon storage tank and heat exchanger
  • Nycwrenchturn
    Nycwrenchturn Member Posts: 19
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    1.5 million steam boiler .
    RomanP
  • Barry E. LaDuke
    Barry E. LaDuke Member Posts: 16
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    Lower flow seems to be a pretty quick partial solution. Given the 45 gpm total flow, 14 tankless would cover it with built-in redundancy if one fails for any reason.

    Tankless capacity: BTU/h input / 500 / delta-T = gpm per tankless.
    (Times EF rating for true gpm output)

    199,900 BTU/h / 500 <8.33 x 60 minutes rounded> / 125 degree rise = 3.2 gpm/tankless. 45 gpm / 3.1 gpm x .97 = 15 tankless and will never run out and will not need to heat storage while not in use.

    Reduce the flow and reduce the number of tankless needed.

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

  • Canucker
    Canucker Member Posts: 722
    edited February 2018
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    Do you know why they need 45 GPM of fresh water for cleaning? There are different ways to clean the tanks that could use less water, depending on set up. Do the tanks need elevated temp for disinfection? Can the tanks be heated or are they just receiving vessels? Are those heads on different ports of the same vessel during the cleaning?
    You can have it good, fast or cheap. Pick two
  • Larry Weingarten
    Larry Weingarten Member Posts: 3,330
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    Hello, Another thought would be to use shower heat exchangers in the drain line, capture heat and return it to use. You should easily be able to capture half or more of the otherwise wasted heat.

    Yours, Larry
    DZoro
  • Nycwrenchturn
    Nycwrenchturn Member Posts: 19
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    Just an update . I installed a lochinvar 501 and it kicks butt . Highly recommend it
  • RomanP
    RomanP Member Posts: 102
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    Just go tankless. Set of 8 cascaded should do it. Make sure brand you choose has good commercial warranty. Off the top of my head each should run 2 gpms at that temp rise. That’s 16 gpms on coldest day. Build a cascade system with common venting and common headers. Done deal. 1.6 mill btus is normal

    Please do thorough research at how many gpms at 120 degree rise. I think I’d go with this setup. Plus you get solid redundancy. If one or two units go out, he won’t stay out of business as opposed to having big single unit. Plus he should get maximum efficiency.
  • Jack
    Jack Member Posts: 1,047
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    Years ago I had a process hot water system that need twice a day high/hot flows. For that particular system I wanted to get to the highest flow from each of the tankless in a rack. As the tankless are flow restricted at high temp rise I was going to need a lot of them. Instead I put two 120 gallon tanks ahead of the rack of tankless. I think it was 6, 199,000btu Rinnai. Given that the water was needed on a schedule, twice a day I had the bank of tankless preheat the two tanks to 120 just before the call. Once up to temp when the call came I was getting 8gpm output per tankless at the required high temp. Wish I could detail that better but it was 16 yrs ago
    Solid_Fuel_Man