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Boiler pressure more than 20 psi

rrabih
rrabih Member Posts: 38
I just checked the pressure of the boiler and I see that it exceeds 20psi, it is somewhere between 20 and 25 (not easy to see from an angle), I am wondering if this is normal;
My boiler is a gaz boiler heating water and it indicates 50psi Max;
Is it ok to have such high pressure during Cold weather? how can I reduce it if I have to? I am looking over the internet but nothing clear found.

Thank you,

Comments

  • bink
    bink Member Posts: 97
    Not sure about your pressure being to high at 20 psi. My system is set at 20 psi because of the way my circulator was installed. Most systems can be set lower than that. My pressure relief is set at 30 psi. So that is generally the pressure limit. You adjust pressure with a valve like a watts1156 in the feed line. Maybe post some pictures to see what you have. Search watts 1156 valve to see how these work.
  • rrabih
    rrabih Member Posts: 38
    the watts I have is in the photo, also attached a photo of the pressure; not sure how can I adjust the pressure; is it a problem with the watss, it is quite new..



  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 8,685
    Rrabih , is the pressure with the system off and cooled down?
  • rrabih
    rrabih Member Posts: 38
    I didn't turn the system off, and it is not cooled down; there's no leak; I was just checking and wanted to know if this is normal.
  • leonz
    leonz Member Posts: 415
    edited January 2018
    If your not familiar enough with your system you need to hire a licensed plumber for an hour to help you and show you how to properly adjust your triple aquastat to lower the high limit temperature and check the system for proper operation as you are very near the pop off pressure for your pressure relief valve.

    Don't forget that your heating system is working harder and it will have an increase in water temperature. You may have a faulty gauge as well.
    I run my boiler at summer operating temperatures and I have my water feed valve shut off and I have low operating pressures with my 225 foot loop of baseboard.
  • bink
    bink Member Posts: 97
    Also think leonz is giving you good advice i think a little risky especially in the middle of heating season if you’re not having a problem now. Suggest getting a pro to reset if you want too watch what they do learn how they do it. Some water will have to be removed in combination with adjusting watts valve.
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 5,188
    Take some more pictures of the boiler, piping and expansion tank.
    What is the height from the boiler gauge to the top of your highest radiation in the house?
    It could be any or a combination of these things:
    -Air in the system
    -Waterlogged steel expansion tank or failed bladder tank
    -Water feed improperly set, or failing to fully close
    -Bad pressure gauge.
    -Internal coil (if equipped) has a leak and full street pressure is adding to boiler pressure.
    steve
  • rrabih
    rrabih Member Posts: 38
    here are some more images. by reading your comments this sounds a serious issue discovered by chance. what is the triple aquastat? shiuld be there a relay normally to stop the heater when the pressure is higher than some level?
    will contact an HVAC tomorrow. I also have an aquastat relay to replace as it stops working intermittently (surely vaused by the joint crack).

    thank you
  • rrabih
    rrabih Member Posts: 38
    another photo with wider view
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 5,188
    There's no control to shut down a water boiler for high pressure. That's what the pressure relief valve is for.
    Your wiring is a mess.
    Your pressure problem is a fairly common one. As long as your relief valve works (have the tech check that too), you're ok.
    The biggest most expensive problem would be a failed, leaking domestic coil. Failed expansion tank or bad boiler fill are easier fixes, aided by the 2 ball valves.
    steve
  • HomerJSmith
    HomerJSmith Member Posts: 1,344
    SteveusaPA, gave some good advice. Your expansion tank looks new. Your fill valve looks new. The pressure in your system should be 1 psi for every 28" from the top of the boiler measuring vertically to the top of the highest heat emitter on the top floor plus 5 psi. For a two story house 12 psi would be adaquate. I generally set my jobs at 15 psi and when the water is heated the pressure in the system reaches 19 psi.

    25 psi is too high although it will work as the pressure relief valve is set to release at 30 psi so there wouldn't be any release of water from the boiler if under that.

    Tridicators are notoriously inaccurate, the older the boiler system is. I wouldn't trust them and would independently check the system pressure with a good water gauge reading top scale 30 psi and compare the reading with the tridicator reading. If the reading is still high change the incoming boiler supply water pressure valve to a setting of 12 psi. Do this when the boiler water is at ambient temperature. After the adjustment release some of the water in the system and re read the gauges.
    It should read 12 psi.

    Once that is done, close the valve under the expansion tank and remove the tank from the system and check the pressure on the bladder side of the tank. Unscrew the black cap that's on top of the tank and under it is a tire valve to check the air pressure in the tank. It should be the same pressure as the gauges showed, 12 psi. If you have to add air, pump it up. If you have to release air, let some air out of the tank.

    Reverse the process to put it back together and open the isolation valve. Simple.

    Where are all the covers for the aquastat, zone valves, and zone motor? Off!
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 9,691
    @rrabih , I wouldn't exactly go off the deep end on this. Your gage looks to me like it's reading 23-24 psi which with a the system up to temperature could be quite normal.

    Your expansion tank is mounted upside down from what the manufacturer requires.

    And yes as @STEVEusaPA mentioned your wiring to the zone valves is quite a mess
  • HomerJSmith
    HomerJSmith Member Posts: 1,344
    Why is one return ball valve turned off?
  • Paul48
    Paul48 Member Posts: 4,470
    Can you tell us a bit about the system? How many sq/ft is the house? What type of emitters(radiators)? I'm surprised your expansion tank hasn't snapped off.
  • rrabih
    rrabih Member Posts: 38
    trying to understand the wiring and all tge mess, and actually I understand whats going on; the watts that I should have sent you is this one:
    it actually shows that it is Set to 30PSI, so seems ok (this one releasing water when boiler is on).

    for the mess, I bought the house like that, alrwady fixed many things here and still too much to do, tank is new, also the watss I ve sent which is there to release more water to the boiler...

    all is off just because I am trying to understand everything here. the house is 3300ft sqaures.
  • HomerJSmith
    HomerJSmith Member Posts: 1,344
    The Watts pressure relief valve (PRV) allows water to escape the boiler if the pressure in the boiler exceeds 30 psi. Is there water dripping out of the discharge pipe coming from the PRV when the boiler is up to temperature and running?
  • rrabih
    rrabih Member Posts: 38
    yes the water is coming from the PRV and there's a pipe for that the drops water; I don't know from when it is like..
  • HomerJSmith
    HomerJSmith Member Posts: 1,344
    If there is water dripping out the discharge pipe from the Pressure Relief Valve (PRV) then there are three possible explanations for it.

    1) The Watts Pressure Regulating Valve on the the boiler cold water feed line is not regulating the pressure in the system to 12-15 psi. I have seen these valves carbonate up and cease regulating the water pressure to the boiler. But yours looks brand new in your picture. So I ask, is the pressure set correctly?

    2) The expansion tank is not set correctly or has failed and has become water logged or the air charge is higher in the air section of the tank then the Watts Pressure Regulating Valve is set to.
    If the Watts Pressure Regulating Valve is set to 15 psi the expansion tank air charge should be set to 15 psi. See my earlier post.

    3) Just a plain ole worn out PRV. Replace the PRV as it is old with a new 30# valve.
  • rrabih
    rrabih Member Posts: 38
    thank you, will try to replace the PRV and let you know if this is fixing the issue.
  • HomerJSmith
    HomerJSmith Member Posts: 1,344
    If there is water dripping out the discharge pipe form the Pressure Relief Valve (PRV) then there are three possible explanations for it.

    1) The Watts Pressure Regulating Valve on the the boiler cold water feed line is not regulating the pressure in the system to 12-15 psi. I have seen these valves carbonate up and cease regulating the water pressure to the boiler. But it looks brand new in your picture. So I ask, is the pressure set correctly?

    2) The expansion tank is not set correctly or has failed and has become water logged or the air charge is higher in the air section of the tank then the Watts Pressure Regulating Valve is set to.
    If the Watts Pressure Regulating Valve is set to 15 psi the expansion tank air charge should be set to 15 psi. See my earlier post.

    3) Just a plain ole worn out PRV that needs replacing, If So...

    Replace the PRV as it is old.
  • j a_2
    j a_2 Member Posts: 1,796
    Sorry but first off your boiler is a mess, a result of very unprofessional personnel servicing it...

    However
    1. Tap test the expansion tank..one side will sound solid the other will sound tingly
    2. If it’s gas like you said,it’s safe to say you don’t have a tankless,do you?
    3. My best guess site unseen is the expansion tank,fill valve or aquastat
    4. It should be a very quick diagonss from a service guy
    5. However he may take one look and do an about face, not wanting to put his hands on such a mess.
    6. Again sorry for raging on your boiler,when you came here for help...
  • rrabih
    rrabih Member Posts: 38
    I will test the tank tonight;
    When you say aquastat: which aquastat are you refering to? the honeywell aquastat?

    what you mean by "you don't have tankless"? I have a tank as you can see in the photo.

    I bought the house with this mess, will try to fix some but wonder why the inspector didn't really warn me about this :-(
  • j a_2
    j a_2 Member Posts: 1,796
    By tankless I am referring to a copper coil inside the boiler to heat your hot water,how is your hot water heated?

    By inspector,I am assuming your referring to the Mr. Home inspector fella..well the multi tasking fellas are no better than the guy next door. Could be he’s the fella that put that boiler in.

    Again don’t take me wrong, to most of us here on site, this is a typical situation. Your job is to somehow get it corrected...Totally understand it’s not a simple or inexpensive task...

  • rrabih
    rrabih Member Posts: 38
    I have a gas boiler, and actually the PRV is not leaking. I'll wait the spring and call in some professional guy; I have many issues that I'am describing in another discussion.

    yes for the inspector, the first month after I bought the house, there water leaks inside my house from the roof (during a heavy raining day) and the insurance asked me to replace the roof as it was really in bad condition (so nothing reimbursed..)!
  • HomerJSmith
    HomerJSmith Member Posts: 1,344
    rrabih, you need to drain some of the water out of your boiler to replace the Pressure Relief Valve that's on top of the boiler. You need to unplug the electric cord that powers your boiler or turn off the power switch.

    You need to close the red handled ball valve that is after the Pressure Regulating Valve on the boiler cold water supply line.

    You need to close all the red handled ball valves on the zone supply and return pipes.

    Put a bucket under the discharge pipe from the PRV and lift the lever and drain all the water that will come out. Then you can remove the PRV . When installing the new PRV us Teflon tape and a good thread sealant.

    When the water is out of the PRV, you can unscrew the black cap on the expansion tank and test the pressure with a tire pressure gauge and add or release air so that the air charge is 15 psi. Then you can fill the boiler with water by opening the cold water supply red handled ball valve. You have to make sure that the Pressure Regulating Valve is set to 15 psi, too. The gauge on the boiler, if it is accurate should read 15 psi.

    You may have air in the system when you fill the boiler with water and you should remove any air.

  • j a_2
    j a_2 Member Posts: 1,796

    rrabih, you need to drain some of the water out of your boiler to replace the Pressure Relief Valve that's on top of the boiler. You need to unplug the electric cord that powers your boiler or turn off the power switch.

    You need to close the red handled ball valve that is after the Pressure Regulating Valve on the boiler cold water supply line.

    You need to close all the red handled ball valves on the zone supply and return pipes.

    Put a bucket under the discharge pipe from the PRV and lift the lever and drain all the water that will come out. Then you can remove the PRV . When installing the new PRV us Teflon tape and a good thread sealant.

    When the water is out of the PRV, you can unscrew the black cap on the expansion tank and test the pressure with a tire pressure gauge and add or release air so that the air charge is 15 psi. Then you can fill the boiler with water by opening the cold water supply red handled ball valve. You have to make sure that the Pressure Regulating Valve is set to 15 psi, too. The gauge on the boiler, if it is accurate should read 15 psi.

    You may have air in the system when you fill the boiler with water and you should remove any air.