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Beckett AFG and TigerLoop problems

gabrielyse
gabrielyse Member Posts: 6
edited December 2017 in Oil Heating
At first, if the burner sat idle too long, I could bled the line, restart, and it would fire fine and run until it idled again. I replaced the thermostat because it would turn on the heat unless it was set to 80. Same problem with air in the line. Then it wouldn't refire. First tech spent 3 hours and ended up changing the filter and canister (which I had just done) and got it to refired. It ran for 4 days then shut off and wouldn't refire. Bleeding the line showed a lot of air. Second tech came out and said either the line needed to be replaced or a tigerloop installed. I opted to install it myself. Installed correctly, including bypass plug, ran for 30 minutes. Tried to restart and tiger loop filled with foam. Finally got it to fill with oil and burner fired. Runs for 15-30 minutes, and flame goes out. An hour later the reset light flashes. The flame goes out when the gauges hit a specific point each time but the house has not reached temperature. I included pictures for reference. I am at a loss as to what to the problem is. There's no leaks anywhere that can be seen. The nozzle is clear, the filter is new, the filter gasket and seal are good, the eye is clean.

Right now, the tigerloop is on the crate bc there is not enough give to mount it and I didn't have any more piping on hand. I plan to mount it properly.

Comments

  • mgdesrochers
    mgdesrochers Member Posts: 20
    If you keep getting air bound then you have a vacuum leak somewhere in the oil supply.
    The flame goes out at that point on your gauge because the aquastat stops the burner at high limit (your gauge picture looks like the boiler is up to temperature).
    Your other picture shows a bunch of teflon tape...teflon tape is NOT to be used on oil line fittings; only use pipe dope.
    Sounds like you need a knowledgeable technician to find your issue.
    One other note-we don't discuss pricing on this forum.
    SuperTech
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 5,457
    First, please remove the pricing, not allowed.
    Secondly, with the prices you were charged I can see why you took matters into your own hands

    You need a qualified experience tech to come out there and diagnose your problem. As you can see, the TigerLoop didn't fix your problem.
    Did you put the bypass plug in the return port of the pump before installing the flex lines?
    Foam could be a vacuum leak, pulling in huge amounts of air.
    Or it could be a restriction and the high vacuum is separating the oil. I think it's the former.
    Before I considered installing a TigerLoop (and I rarely consider it- Ed? ;) ) I would check all the connections and put a vacuum gauge on the pump and the system to see what is going on. Only a vacuum gauge will see a vacuum leak. Your fuel system can leak air and not fuel.
    I would also put a pressure gauge, and using both, make sure your fuel pump is ok.

    ...The flame goes out when the gauges hit a specific point each time but the house has not reached temperature....

    This is your boiler running up to high limit and shutting off the burner, which it is suppose to do. It indicates, among a number of things:
    1. That your boiler is too big for the heat loss of your home.
    2. The circulator may not be working properly.
    3. Your system could be air bound.

    After all that is squared away, you are going to need a combustion test performed.
    Overall, I recommend you get a recommendation from a trusted friend for a qualified, competent tech.
    steve
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 5,457
    @mgdesrochers
    I didn't zoom in enough to see the teflon tape, good eye.
    Your oil shouldn't be pitch black. Are you getting used oil (from someone else's tank) or is your tank as old as your boiler?
    steve
  • gabrielyse
    gabrielyse Member Posts: 6
    Sorry, I removed the prices!! Yes, it just seems that finding a good person is the problem. The Teflon tape was suggested by the supply house where I bought the parts. I can remove it and clean and reset everything. I inherited this house and am on the wait list to convert to gas which will be an expense on its own so I was trying not to go broke fixing this.
  • gabrielyse
    gabrielyse Member Posts: 6
    edited December 2017
    Tank is just as old. The oil is not actually black, just poor lighting and an old smart phone with bad camera.
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 5,457
    edited December 2017
    Ahhhh...foamy sadness
    So tomorrow you're going to remove all the teflon tape, clean the fittings and use pipe dope rated for fuel oil.
    Check the flare fittings, make sure your filter is installed properly, and the bleed screw is tight (don't over crank), put a wrench on the packing nut of the shut-off valve and snug that up too, make sure pump strainer is tight.
    Hopefully you'll be in better shape. Is your oil line completely exposed from tank to burner, and does it come out of the bottom of the tank or the top?
    If it's not completely exposed, maybe time to run a new line.
    If it's in the top of the tank, maybe a pinhole in the line, in the tank.
    Have you checked this site to find a contractor near you?
    steve
  • gabrielyse
    gabrielyse Member Posts: 6
    I have checked this site, there's no one near me unfortunately. But I will try a different company on Monday I suppose. For now running the oven and space heaters through the snowy nights. I will check all of those things again after removing the Teflon tape, but it was already done be me twice and both techs. The line comes out of the top of the tank. The tank is above ground outside and runs through a hole in the wall down into the cellar. I really appreciate all the responses here! I'll hoping for a Christmas miracle the foam disappears after resetting and tightening everything! Haha
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 11,172
    Do you have two lines between the oil tank and the burner or only one?

    I am afraid I know the answer and my fix will not be the same as others will recommend.

    However, I think most will agree that you most likely have a suction leak allowing air into the suction line or are severely restricted due to a kinked line, partially plugged line etc.

    Make sure to check the oil filter gaskets including the bleed screw as this is the most likely culprit.

    Suction leaks can be difficult. You need to check everything very carefully and you can find it
  • gabrielyse
    gabrielyse Member Posts: 6
    One line from the tank.put in the bypass with the tiger loop. It's fired twice on its own so far with air bubbles but no foam. I'll definitely check everything again after the snow stops. Probably not the best idea, but the previous owner coated the line from the tank in flexseal so I'm assuming they had this problem as well and assumed it was a pin hole in the line.
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 4,358
    Flexseal? That stuff that can float a boat with a screen door bottom? Oh boy.
    Is there a valve on the bottom of the tank? If so, I would use that rather than top feed (with a new oil line to the filter).
    If no valve, I would still run a new oil line from the tank.
    You'll need a qualified tech to do this. Need a flaring tool. NO COMPRESSION FITTINGS.
    You can keep the Tiger Loop though after the suction leak problem is rectified.
  • gabrielyse
    gabrielyse Member Posts: 6
    One line from the tank.put in the bypass with the tiger loop. I removed all the teflon tape and replaced all the old fittings, the shut off valve, and made sure everything was tightened. There's still quite a bit of air bubbles in the tiger loop but no more foam. It's been running for almost 12 hours now without shutting off so it's actually refiring on its own. The true test will be next week when it warms up and won't need to be constantly running. I really appreciate all the help here. I'm young and have no idea what I'm doing (clearly) so I appreciate everyone's time helping me with this.
    CTOilHeatSuperTech
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 4,358
    The boiler is probably cycling more because it's cold. If the burner was to be off for a couple hours, the oil would siphon back to the tank.
  • tim111
    tim111 Member Posts: 1
    Clean or replace oil line. I've seen this in many old homes where the line goes thru cement. As you can see the stain where the line goes thru the cement, I'd bet that your problem.
    Grallert
  • Grallert
    Grallert Member Posts: 524
    You should replace the fuel live from the tank to the Tiger Loop. You should see no bubbles at all in the tiger loop dome. If your flare fittings are tight and not cracked you have a faulty fuel line. If your fuel line goes into cement than your best course is always to start with a new line.
  • Linda_j
    Linda_j Member Posts: 1
    TigerLoop - air or foam
    I just put a Tiger Loop on both my boiler and my Water heater, the one on the boiler is working fine. New tank, new lines, new filters. Old tank was at back of house with supply and return lines about 35 or more feet. New tank is right outside next to both units - less than 20 feet of lines including what is in the tank, out the top, and then down to the cellar.
    The Tiger Loop on the Water Heater gets Foam on top of the oil in the lower chamber as soon as the unit starts running. Also the burner smokes - and the fire goes out. First week or so I could sit with it and hit the reset, watching that there is not excess oil in the chamber. Now - - I can't even get it to stay on at all. I called the supply store I bought it from and they said they would replace the Tiger Loop incase it may be defective. Other than that I am at a loss as to why the foam and air - - like if you didn't know how to pour beer into a glass.
    The chamber box liner may also need to be relined.
    Any ideas on what is going on would be appreciated.
    Both lines, filters, everything - - all new.
    Also pump on WH, including screen and nozzle - are also new. Just for the heck of it, I have also changed the nozzle 2 more times, in case I bought defective ones. Thanks


  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 4,358
    It seems like there is a bad flare or fitting on the water heater side causing a suction leak.
    Are the supply and return lines correct to the fuel pump?
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 11,172
    Pictures or a sketch of how the oil lines are piped. Both burners on the same oil lines or separate oil lines for each?
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 5,457
    edited February 2018
    Pictures would help. What's with all the Tiger Loops?
    Edit: Ed beat me to it.
    steve