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Nursery room radiator cold (With PICS) UPDATE

gryegrye Member Posts: 76
edited November 2017 in THE MAIN WALL
Hi! Thanks for reading.

The radiator in the nursery (of all places) isn’t getting hot. Every other radiator is fine. I replaced the air vent last year (I think because of clanking) so that’s new. One pipe steam system.

I read up on the matter to try and not waste anybody’s time here. The valve is all the way open. I pitched the radiator towards the pipe. All the pipes leaving my boiler room are warm.

Any other tips/remedies you can recommend? Pictures are attached, let me know if you need more.

Thanks again.
«1

Comments

  • neilcneilc Member Posts: 725
    does that vent have a little stain on it ?
    maybe try another vent?
    swap in a known working one to test,

    what pressure do you run at?
    looks like you might lower the P trol setting a little more,
    differential set to 1 ?
  • JUGHNEJUGHNE Member Posts: 6,175
    Where is this rad in relation to others and the boiler itself?
    Can you see in the basement the runout that goes to the nursery?
    If your other rad valves seem workable, you might shut down 1 or 2 of the largest rads and see if this changes things.
    Also trade air vents with one know to be working and see if it changes. It you trade vents, you can put the one on the working rad upside down......that in effect will almost shut that rad off.
    How may rads are in the house?
  • Danny ScullyDanny Scully Member Posts: 1,219
    edited November 2017
    Few things. 1) water level is too high. Lower it to the fill line shown on the jacket of the boiler. 2) cut in pressure is too high, so i would assume cut out might be wrong too. Lower the cut in pressure to 0.5 by turning the flat head screw on top of the pressuretrol. Then remove the cover by unscrewing the front screw and adjust the cut out pressure. It’s a white wheel with an indicator above it. Set it to 2, 1.5, or 1 even. 3) that appears to be an air vent made somewhere in Asia...get yourself the appropriate Gorton. 4) with the boiler off, remove the air vent and temporarily install an 1/8” nipple. Ensure that you can freely blow air in through the nipple, without restriction. This with confirm the radiator valve is indeed open and free of obstructions.
  • FredFred Member Posts: 8,099
    Pressuretol is set too high. That scale on the front should be set to .5PSI and the Differential (white wheel inside the unit ) should be set to "1". Is that vent one of the cheap ones from the local big box store? They typically don't work well. Use a Hoffman 1A, Vent-rite #1 or Maid -O-Mist vent.
    You can take that vent off and shake it to see if it is water logged. Shake the water off and try to blow through it, in the upright position to see if you can blow air through it.
    Another test is to take the vent off, start the boiler and see if that radiator gets hot. Have someone standing by the boiler to turn the power off as soon as you feel the rad getting warm/hot, so you don't blow steam out into the room.
  • JUGHNEJUGHNE Member Posts: 6,175
    From reading your first post, you have had trouble with the boiler over filling. You stated that you do not have an auto fill valve. It was suggested that you may have an old cold water fill valve that does not shut off completely thus allowing water to continuously run into the boiler.

    Have you corrected that first problem?

    Now by flooding the system with water then you could have a horizontal pipe to the nursery that has a water pocket and not allowing steam to get there.

    As Danny said cheap vents are cheap....might work might not.
  • gryegrye Member Posts: 76
    > @Danny Scully said:
    > Few things. 1) water level is too high. Lower it to the fill line shown on the jacket of the boiler. 2) cut in pressure is too high, so i would assume cut out might be wrong too. Lower the cut in pressure to 0.5 by turning the flat head screw on top of the pressuretrol. Then remove the cover by unscrewing the front screw and adjust the cut out pressure. It’s a white wheel with an indicator above it. Set it to 2, 1.5, or 1 even. 3) that appears to be an air vent made somewhere in Asia...get yourself the appropriate Gorton. 4) with the boiler off, remove the air vent and temporarily install an 1/8” nipple. Ensure that you can freely blow air in through the nipple, without restriction. This with confirm the radiator valve is indeed open and free of obstructions.


    I have no idea what the pressure is, or should be (including the cut in).

    A few people have mentioned it, so maybe it should be changed. Is there anything else you guys would need to know before I change it?

    I’ll swing by a supply store and get a new vent also.
  • BobCBobC Member Posts: 5,010
    Is this radiator fed by a takeoff at the end of the steam main?

    How long is the steam main and what size pipe? What kind of main vent do you have?

    Check the pipe from the main to that radiator to make sure it is pitched back towards the main and that there are no dips in the piping that might be pooling water.

    Steam always takes the path of least resistance, what kind of vents do the other radiators have on them?

    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
  • gryegrye Member Posts: 76
    > @JUGHNE said:
    > Where is this rad in relation to others and the boiler itself?
    > Can you see in the basement the runout that goes to the nursery?
    > If your other rad valves seem workable, you might shut down 1 or 2 of the largest rads and see if this changes things.
    > Also trade air vents with one know to be working and see if it changes. It you trade vents, you can put the one on the working rad upside down......that in effect will almost shut that rad off.
    > How may rads are in the house?

    I can see the runout which I think goes to the nursery (it’s on the second floor). It’s warm downstairs. There’s 9 radiators in the house.

    The other issue seemed to have been fixed. I drained it to the appropriate level, left it and it didn’t have to be filled the rest of the season. It’s high now, as it just started being used. I’ll drain and monitor.
  • unclejohnunclejohn Member Posts: 1,420
    And wash that Binky before you give it back to the baby.
  • FredFred Member Posts: 8,099
    Adjust that Pressuretrol down and put the new vent on. If you get one of the ones I suggested, they are adjustable and you can open them or close them depending on the temp you need in that room (faster setting, quicker steam fill/more heat), slower setting, less heat. You can play with the adjustments until you get it where you want.
  • BobCBobC Member Posts: 5,010
    If the radiator is on the second floor there may be a short horizontal pipe under the floor that has the wrong slope. Try lifting the whole radiator up, placing a 3/4" shim under the air vent end and a 1/2" under the valve end.

    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
  • JUGHNEJUGHNE Member Posts: 6,175
    It is a good system that you did not have to add water for the system.
    But where did today's water come from? The boiler is slightly overfilled in your picture.
    If you did not change out a fill valve that could be seeping by, as discussed last spring, you may be plagued by that this winter with overfilling.

    Does the runout to the riser for the nursery seem to be below it in the basement near the outside wall. Or does it go up thru an inside wall and then horizontal over to the second floor outside wall. That horizontal pipe between the ceiling and your second floor could have a dip in with a water pool/plug.
  • gryegrye Member Posts: 76
    > @JUGHNE said:
    > It is a good system that you did not have to add water for the system.
    > But where did today's water come from? The boiler is slightly overfilled in your picture.
    > If you did not change out a fill valve that could be seeping by, as discussed last spring, you may be plagued by that this winter with overfilling.
    >
    > Does the runout to the riser for the nursery seem to be below it in the basement near the outside wall. Or does it go up thru an inside wall and then horizontal over to the second floor outside wall. That horizontal pipe between the ceiling and your second floor could have a dip in with a water pool/plug.

    You’re right. It was fine the rest of the season last year, now it’s high. The level was fine before it was running 24/7, did water in the lines return from the steam?

    The boiler is on one side of the house, the radiator on the opposite side. Must be a horizontal pipe. There’s a radiator directly below it in the kitchen which has no issue.
  • gryegrye Member Posts: 76
    > @Fred said:
    > Adjust that Pressuretrol down and put the new vent on. If you get one of the ones I suggested, they are adjustable and you can open them or close them depending on the temp you need in that room (faster setting, quicker steam fill/more heat), slower setting, less heat. You can play with the adjustments until you get it where you want.

    Is this something I should do or do I have to call someone in? Are there any other factors that would change the pressure. The boiler was built right before I moved in, and I never touched it. So does that mean the company that built it set it up wrong or could there be something else they were considering. They’re who I would call for boiler service, so I’m a little hesitant to change their settings if that makes sense.
  • JUGHNEJUGHNE Member Posts: 6,175
    Did you manually add any water to the system this year?

    If not then the water fill valve may be leaking. All the condensate from the steam would have returned for sure at the end of last heating season.
    Some additional water has entered the system from some where.
  • FredFred Member Posts: 8,099
    edited November 2017
    They should have never set it that high. Don't be afraid to adjust it down per the settings above. Virtually every single pipe system should be set that way, some two pipe systems even lower. The only other thing that should be done, annually (as it relates to the Pressuretrol) is the pigtail (looped pipe the Pressuretrol is mounted on, should be taken off and cleaned out. They will get clogged with crud and then the Pressuretrol can't see the actual system pressure to control it. Remember to take the cover off of the Pressuretrol (one screw in the front, center, bottom) and set the white wheel to "1" facing out (the front of the unit).
  • gryegrye Member Posts: 76
    > @JUGHNE said:
    > Did you manually add any water to the system this year?
    >
    > If not then the water fill valve may be leaking. All the condensate from the steam would have returned for sure at the end of last heating season.
    > Some additional water has entered the system from some where.

    When I had the leak and I drained the water to the right level. Then, maybe, when the season was over the condensate returned and raised the level? As I type that out, I realize it would return to normal levels. And that I have a water issue.

    BUT, I guess the question is, would that cause this one radiator to be cold? Or are these two separate issues? Thanks for your help btw.
  • JUGHNEJUGHNE Member Posts: 6,175
    I would say this is 2 separate issues.
    But if you did not find out how the boiler overfilled last spring and correct that you will most likely have another water event.
  • gryegrye Member Posts: 76
    > @Fred said:
    > They should have never set it that high. Don't be afraid to adjust it down per the settings above. Virtually every single pipe system should be set that way, some two pipe systems even lower. The only other thing that should be done, annually (as it relates to the Pressuretrol) is the pigtail (looped pipe the Pressuretrol is mounted on, should be taken off and cleaned out. They will get clogged with crud and then the Pressuretrol can't see the actual system pressure to control it. Remember to take the cover off of the Pressuretrol (one screw in the front, center, bottom) and set the white wheel to "1" facing out (the front of the unit).

    Mine is a one pipe system... that doesn’t change anything does it?

    (Also, if this is what they set it at, and after a tune up left it at, do I need a new service guy?!)
  • Too bad the installers did not use the larger diameter of the boiler tapping for the riser and header. That would reduce the amount of water thrown up into the system.
    Some insulation on those pipes would be beneficial as well.—NBC
  • MilanDMilanD Member Posts: 1,110
    Best way to familiarize yourself with the system is to get (at the least) a book "We Got Steam Heat". Then, if you need more info, get "Lost Art of Steam Heat". For better or for worse, you are now a custodian of the steam system. It's not complicated and it's not difficult to understand once the concepts are grasped. On a gas fired boiler, most of basic maintenance you can do yourself. As the the system itself (pipes, valves and vents), a few wrenches, sawsall, and pb blaster (or kroil), and your friendly local hardware store or pipe supply place will let you fix almost anything yourself if you choose so.
  • gryegrye Member Posts: 76
    > @JUGHNE said:
    >
    >
    > Now by flooding the system with water then you could have a horizontal pipe to the nursery that has a water pocket and not allowing steam to get there.
    >
    > As Danny said cheap vents are cheap....might work might not.

    If this is the issue, a water pocket, what’s the fix?

    I’ll be replacing the air vent, but the pipe coming up from floor, below the fully open valve, is also cold. In case that helps any diagnosis.
  • KC_JonesKC_Jones Member Posts: 4,267
    What is your main venting like in the basement? That could be part of the problem.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
    https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10202744301871904.1073741828.1330391881&type=1&l=c34ad6ee78
  • gryegrye Member Posts: 76
    > @KC_Jones said:
    > What is your main venting like in the basement? That could be part of the problem.

    What does that look like or where would it be? I’ll post a picture.

    This particular radiator with the problem is right above the boiler, but on the opposite side of the house. There’s one on the second floor between then (middle of the house) that’s fine, as is the one directly below it on the first floor. This is the only one with a problem. Don’t know if that changes anything.
  • Danny ScullyDanny Scully Member Posts: 1,219
    Have you tried my 4th recommendation?
  • EBEBRATT-EdEBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 6,103
    sounds like this rad is furthest from the boiler. As @JUGHNE mentioned shut down a few of your other rads and see if you can get this one to heat.

    also how often does the boiler cycle on and off if you leave the thermostat as is? Coud be short cycling and not heating the furthest radiator
  • FredFred Member Posts: 8,099
    edited November 2017
    @grye said: Mine is a one pipe system... that doesn’t change anything does it?

    (Also, if this is what they set it at, and after a tune up left it at, do I need a new service guy?!)

    No, it doesn't change anything at all. I don't know if you need a new service guy but I will say he should know to set the controls properly. The higher pressure is allowed to go, the slower steam moves through the system. Sounds counter intuitive but true. In addition, where he has it set, and depending on where the differential (white wheel inside) is set, it could damage the main and radiator vents. They are designed with an upper range of about 3 PSI, max. Change the settings. You'll be doing yourself and your system a real service!
    Do you hear any banging when the boiler is in a heat cycle? If yes, does it appear to be in the area of that radiator or the pipe to it? That would be a clear indication that water is pooled in one of the horizontal pipes to that radiator, either in the basement or under the floor. If in the basement, try to pitch that pipe back to the main, If under the floor, try raising the entire radiator a 1/4 to 1/2" and then repitch the radiator. That will pitch the pipe under the floor. Sometimes settling will cause a horizontal pipe to lose its pitch. Raise the radiator slowly and shim under the feet.
    As has been said, if you don't have enough main venting, especially if this radiator is near the end of the main, that can also slow the steam down, trying to push air out of the system, through a small vent. It is possible that the room with the thermostat is warmer and satisfies the thermostat before steam can get to that radiator. That may be why the service people thought they needed to raise the Pressuretrol but that's the wrong solution and only adds to the problem.
  • gryegrye Member Posts: 76
    Thanks Fred.

    No banging or clanking issues. At least not enough that I would think there’s an issue.

    What does the main vent look like? Where would that be?
  • KC_JonesKC_Jones Member Posts: 4,267
    The main vent should be somewhere in the vicinity of the last radiator takeoff before the main returns back to the boiler. They could also be right where the main drops and becomes a wet return.

    Look around the basement and even take a few pics and we can probably help. Don't be surprised if you don't find any.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
    https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10202744301871904.1073741828.1330391881&type=1&l=c34ad6ee78
  • KC_JonesKC_Jones Member Posts: 4,267
    The third picture of the pipe that turns down to the floor is the area a main vent should be.

    This is most likely the main reason for your issues. You can try messing around with radiator vents for a while, but the best bang for the buck would be to get main venting added. IMHO
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
    https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10202744301871904.1073741828.1330391881&type=1&l=c34ad6ee78
  • gryegrye Member Posts: 76
    UPDATE

    again, thanks for the help.

    I pitched the radiator even more. Then I swapped the air vent with a known working one. Then I turned off the other radiators and called for heat.

    They both got HOT.

    The radiator must be on the first run. Both the radiator and boiler are on the back side of the house. However, a radiator also on the second floor but on the second run gets hot, while this one on the first doesn’t. Not until I shut down the other radiators anyway.
  • gryegrye Member Posts: 76
    > @KC_Jones said:
    > The third picture of the pipe that turns down to the floor is the area a main vent should be.
    >
    > This is most likely the main reason for your issues. You can try messing around with radiator vents for a while, but the best bang for the buck would be to get main venting added. IMHO

    I don’t have a main vent at all? And I should add one? Or I just can’t find it?
  • grye said:


    I don’t have a main vent at all? And I should add one? Or I just can’t find it?

    Stand back from the boiler a bit and give us a few more shots of the piping above it.



    New England SteamWorks
    Service, Installation, & Restoration of Steam Heating Systems
    newenglandsteamworks.com
  • gryegrye Member Posts: 76
    > @New England SteamWorks said:
    > I don’t have a main vent at all? And I should add one? Or I just can’t find it?
    >
    > Stand back from the boiler a bit and give us a few more shots of the piping above it.
  • Another shot from this same position, but over to the left showing the piping going into the back of the boiler, and the piping above the back of the boiler please.




    New England SteamWorks
    Service, Installation, & Restoration of Steam Heating Systems
    newenglandsteamworks.com
  • gryegrye Member Posts: 76
    > @New England SteamWorks said:
    > Another shot from this same position, but over to the left showing the piping going into the back of the boiler, and the piping above the back of the boiler please.
  • Did you forget to attach the pictures?


    New England SteamWorks
    Service, Installation, & Restoration of Steam Heating Systems
    newenglandsteamworks.com



  • New England SteamWorks
    Service, Installation, & Restoration of Steam Heating Systems
    newenglandsteamworks.com
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