Watts Ball Valves Malfunction -

rudyshlesinger

Has anyone else experienced Watts brass ball valves, breaking in half at the seam long after installation.

Zman

All sort of things break for numerous reasons. Sometimes they are over tightened,water hammer, freezing, manufacture defect?
Do you have picture of the failed valve?

rudyshlesinger

its not from freezing or over tightening ( that would be at point of connections ), valves are rated 600 WOG psi, yes i have pictures, dont know how to put them up, its in the middle of the valve where the manufacturer inserts the ball mechanism then seals the valve, it looks like threaded in the middle, then i guess the answer is no from you, never happened to you, thanks.

TheKeymaster

To add a picture you click on the button that says "attach image". It's on the right side above where you add text for a post. You then just hit choose file and navigate to the file where ever it is on your computer. If the picture is on your phone the easiest way to get a couple picture onto the computer is just email the pictures to yourself then open the email on the computer. Right click on the picture in the email and either download or save it. Pay attention to where it goes so you can find it to post. Sorry for the long explanation, but you said no idea so I tried to step by step it. In case you need it in the future.

rudyshlesinger

rudyshlesinger

it actually worked, when i first tried, it looked like computer code symbols

EBEBRATT-Ed

What type of system is this on and at what temperature? Valve looks look like it has been hot. Is it steam?? 600wog is not a steam rating.

In any event I am sure Watts would like to know.

rudyshlesinger

4 valves failed at 3 different jobs, domestic hot an cold water, everything standard, this was on kitchens and bathrooms renovations, they just failed about 1 year after installation .

rudyshlesinger

im a licensed plumber for 15 years, a plumber for 30 years, never seen anything like this

nicholas bonham-carter

Could the building have settled a bit, and stressed the valve body?--NBC

rudyshlesinger

3 buildings ?

JUGHNE

Are they the lead free brass? I believe Watts went to a white handle for LF/LL from the old yellow.
Are they full port or the heavy duty reduced port opening?
If threaded ends and you tighten the valve up as if it were a coupling then a lot of stress is put on the valve body. Maybe hairline crack that grows with time/expansion/contraction.

bob_46

I worked for a large chemical research facility that would not allow ball valves that were screwed together like a watts. The reason was the thread could possibly be damaged by over tightening or it might be unscrewed inadvertently . We only used ball valves that were bolted together like this.

Larry Weingarten

Hello, Were these all from the same batch of valves that you bought? As EBEBRATT-Ed said, I'm sure Watts would like to know. Have you contacted them? Don't even want to think about the mess a broken valve could make!

Yours, Larry

rudyshlesinger

I do a lot of kitchens and bathrooms in NYC, yes i buy a lot of them monthly. I did contact Watts, they want me to send them the valve, but Im holding on to them.

rudyshlesinger

I think when they changed their metal composition, trying to go lead free, the new mixture of metals is the problem, they claim to be 600 psi rated, cant be over tighten on a 1/2" valve.

rudyshlesinger

bob said:

I worked for a large chemical research facility that would not allow ball valves that were screwed together like a watts. The reason was the thread could possibly be damaged by over tightening or it might be unscrewed inadvertently . We only used ball valves that were bolted together like this.

I can understand a chemical plant taking extra precaution and then some.

rudyshlesinger

JUGHNE said:

Are they the lead free brass? I believe Watts went to a white handle for LF/LL from the old yellow.
Are they full port or the heavy duty reduced port opening?
If threaded ends and you tighten the valve up as if it were a coupling then a lot of stress is put on the valve body. Maybe hairline crack that grows with time/expansion/contraction.

I also noticed discoloring at the seam, Im thinking a bad composition of cast brass metal.

AJCimino

This happened to me a few years back. The valves were lead free 1/2" copper ball valves. After soldering, I noticed a leak at the seam and removed the valves. When I tried to tighten them, they broke. This happened with only two valves. These were Watts lead free yellow handle valves made in China. Also, the first iteration of lead free valves were very difficult to solder. Since then, and with the advent of the white handle valves, I have had no problems with leaking or soldering.

ScottSecor

Looks like it may be a manufactures defect to me. Only way I could see it not being a defective product is if the nipples/adapters were over-tightened and stressed the valve.

What I find unusual is they lasted about a year. I have had three piece ball valves leak, but it was always within a day or so. I recall they always leaked at the seam where the pieces joined. Never has a ball valve break at the seam, even when we beat the heck out of them ripping out an old heating system.

BobC

The biggest problem with parts from China is you never know what your going to get. Quality control on the raw materials end of things is their biggest problem, you have to ride them hard to make sure they do what they are supposed to. If they run out of something they will substitute anything to complete an order, remember the melamine in the milk a few years ago?

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2008/10/09/the-story-behind-chinas-tainted-milk-scandal

Bob

rudyshlesinger

ScottSecor said:

Looks like it may be a manufactures defect to me. Only way I could see it not being a defective product is if the nipples/adapters were over-tightened and stressed the valve.

What I find unusual is they lasted about a year. I have had three piece ball valves leak, but it was always within a day or so. I recall they always leaked at the seam where the pieces joined. Never has a ball valve break at the seam, even when we beat the heck out of them ripping out an old heating system.

at 3 different job sites, 4 valves total, its not over tightened, these valves claim 600 psi WOG, over tightened meaning threads would be made on a vise so hard, it would go through the valve, all normal but the valve

rudyshlesinger

AJCimino said:

This happened to me a few years back. The valves were lead free 1/2" copper ball valves. After soldering, I noticed a leak at the seam and removed the valves. When I tried to tighten them, they broke. This happened with only two valves. These were Watts lead free yellow handle valves made in China. Also, the first iteration of lead free valves were very difficult to solder. Since then, and with the advent of the white handle valves, I have had no problems with leaking or soldering.

i hear you, nothing on these valves stated made in china, white and blue handles - model # LFFBV - 4

hot_rod

rudyshlesinger said:

AJCimino said:

This happened to me a few years back. The valves were lead free 1/2" copper ball valves. After soldering, I noticed a leak at the seam and removed the valves. When I tried to tighten them, they broke. This happened with only two valves. These were Watts lead free yellow handle valves made in China. Also, the first iteration of lead free valves were very difficult to solder. Since then, and with the advent of the white handle valves, I have had no problems with leaking or soldering.

i hear you, nothing on these valves stated made in china, white and blue handles - model # LFFBV - 4

The spec info on Amazon shows China. I think Watts offers import or domestic on most valves?

rudyshlesinger

i try to avoid china stuff, no markings on valve where its made

JUGHNE

Today's Watts have "China" printed on the back of the handle, yellow or white. Older yellow full port Watts are marked "Italy" on the back of the handle.
The maybe only nice feature of the watts was the reversible handle from left to right sides. And a packing nut which seems to need tightening after soldering.
But for my last job I went with Legend...Made in Italy. Seem Ok so far, not bad to solder, I coat the valve body with Thermal Block gel. Don't have to bury many threads for IPS, haven't cracked any yet with SS nipples which seem to be a hard material versus brass nipples.
No packing nut to tighten which makes me a little leery, but the lit claims no problem, the nuisance is eliminated to the need to tighten packing??

EBEBRATT-Ed

Using these valve on residential is about as light duty a use as you get in the valve industry.

I would definitely let Watts know. Holding on to the valves is just scrap value.

I don't think I have ever had a problem with Apollo. Don't know how the price compares. I am sure others have their favorite brand

Zman

I'm not sure how you are determining that a 600 WOG cannot be over tightened. The rating is referring only to internal pressure.

I am also puzzled as to why you would not send one to Watts. How else are you going to get it figured out?

My guess is that someone over tightened it , could be the machine at the factory, could be the installer. It also could be a combination of bad casting and over wrenching.

If you put your backer wrench on the opposite side of the valve as you tighten the attached pipe, you could definitely break a valve like that.

hot_rod

It's possible the assembly was over torqued when the valve was assembled, maybe on an automated assembly line?
The connection of the two halves is usually sealed with Loctite and does not require a lot of torque to seal.

The white deposit around an assembly or brass component could be caused by dezincification. Certain ph fluids can pull the zinc out of the alloy and you have a porous copper left.
Most manufacturers use only DZR brass alloys now, ask your supplier or manufacturer if the brass components you buy are DZR brass.

I saw these valves at a supplier recently, they started leaking shortly after being installed.