Calling all plumbers, two Delta questions

GW

I'm a bit rusty in my plumbing skills--I just installed a Delta 2522 in one of my apartments. Looks like a cheese ball with those dumb cheapo handles. I call the local vendor to ask for better lever handles (glad to pay) and he says 'can't do the better handles like in the past'. I'm having a hard time fathoming that. I can't get the lever style handles anymore?

Secondly, in another unit, I had a good old fashioned night mare with a Delta 1300 series t/s valve, about 8 or so years old. I reinstalled a 40 gal wh and somehow the t/s valve objected--the water volume was about 1/2, maybe less. I figure it's the cartridge. Stupid cartridge won't come out, I've never seen this. It took me 45 minute to excavate the cartridge out--- in pieces. i put a new one in and same thing. I call Delta and they say something got into the valve body or pipe that leads to the spout. Bad day i guess. Anyone had stuck cartridge issues? Anyone seen the half-flow issues? I need to go back and 'back flush' the spout pipe.

Thanks, Gary, at least the card in my wallet says i'm a master plumber

MilanD

Should be able to get generic lever handles that are somewhat beefier in big box store.

I guess Delta isn't what it used to be...

hot_rod

That 2522 was a favorite faucet for many of my customers. Their website still shows plenty of handle options, may need to shop online faucet shops.

With levers you need right and left hand turn cartridge.

kcopp

Should be able to swap out the handles.... May need to adjust the cartridge to work w knobs vs. levers.
I did recently have an issue w/ a newer 1300 series cartridge.... It did have to come out in pieces. Big mess.
There is a difference w/ the older and newer 13/1400 series cartridges..... blue and grey colors.

GW

Grey vs Blue..........I spared the forum my pain on that one. The stupid packaging could stand to be more specific. I'd love to have a quick chat with whichever engineer decided to make the cartridges so very close in size.

Hot Rod I always thought the stems just need to be spun 180 degrees to make the hot open the opposite direction. At least that what my past plumbing memories tell me. Then something about changing the orientation of the plastic stop. It's been too many years

Ok back to the inter web to buy more stuff

Gary

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

I can't help you with the tub/shower cartridge, but with the 2522, whenever I have a parts problem, I call Crest/Good at (800)862-7378. They only carry OEM parts. Ask for Tom.

GW

Thanks Alan, I'm always trying to limit how often I'm sending my cc numbers to different vendors. I guess it's just how things are. I'll look at some web sites that have my cc on file first. Thanks

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

No problem. There are times when I like to be able to make a phone call and speak to someone that knows exactly what I want, a rarity these days.

GW

I did ask for the better handles but the local vendor didn't have them. I got them online

Gary

GW

Ok so I was at the apartment and the 1300 series valve, it’s just odd. When I lift the diverter thingie at the tub spout, the water trickles out of the shower head, like 50% flow. About 30 seconds later the flow gets to 100%. It’s the craziest thing. Thanks for any help

kcopp

If the water pressure is low it will take a few seconds for the tube to fill up and get proper flow.

the_donut

I usually burn stuck carts out. A couple minutes with map, cherry red metal and cart wiggles out. I've seen internal shutoffs get gummies up by debris. Sometimes you have to pull cart, remove disc shutoff and cycle hot and cold shutoff to blow out debris.

I have also seen people use the wrong type of seats and springs cause a low flow issue. Some replacements have both the short and fat and the long and tapered. Usually the short and fat are the type for most delta installations.

If you are still having an issue, there may be a slight leak at the mixing valve or shower arm. Both will be visible with covers off.

Sometimes new heads have a restricting orifice that can cause screeching and low flow.

Finally I have seen diverter gates leak from spout end and internal leaks in the tub spout. The little bit off water lost at bottom causes enough pressure loss at head to cause issues.

Good luck.

GW

Thanks, Kcoop, the pressure is good, city water, maybe 70 psi (I have a reducing valve in the basement)

Donut, very interesting, don't you get some burning plastics/noxious fumes? I had a miserable time getting the original cart out; and I've done scores of cartridges in my plumbing days.

I think if we had a leak the floor below would have a stain on the ceiling. But I should double check,

I'll call Delta again too and hope I get a rep that has heard of this issue before.

BenDplumber

You are correct about flipping the cartridges or stops on 80 degrees in the lavatory faucet. If you have galvanized distribution piping might try pulling the tub shower cartridge balancing spool and flush valve body with spool removed never had much luck with Delta faucets in the Dayton Ohio area don't seem to hold up to hard water or scale

the_donut

I usually run exhaust fan and either use heat gel or mineral shield after taking off cover. Still have to be careful. Once nut is off a pair of vise grips and some back and forth and side to side motion with a calcium solvent (I like to use tri-flow) and cart will pull out.

GW

ok so fast forward to now. Shower valve issue needs to get fixed. I hope I don’t have to peel off the shower wall and replace the valve. Cannot get access from the rear Unless I want to tear into another apartment wall.

With the cartridge removed I get good flow, into a bucket. Also. I attached a hose at the tub spout and at the shower head (trim removed) and let the water dump into the same bucket (cartridge still removed) I get less that 50% of the flow doing each end than I do simply shooting my hose right into the bucket (timer for 20 seconds, simple measure the water) Clearly there is something impeding the flow within the valve

I surfed the web and found two examples of the same problem. Nileither had any clear thoughts on what caused the blockage. One of the two said “lime or calcium buildup inside the piping” which seems hard to understand

The valve was fine before I changed out a water heater.

If anybody has any tips please let me know, thanks

Gsmith

Are there shut off valves (stops) inside that shower valve? I had a moen valve that got debris stuck in the hot water stop after changing a water heater. The moen stops unscrew with a deep socket and we’re clearable when out. Don’t know about the delta valve.

GW

Good point but no, this valve does not have stops. I called Delta a couple times on this but I keep on getting the first level technical person. I’m wondering if I need to pump some acid through the valve with a transfer pump. It’s just so bizarre that it happened when I changed the water heater. I understand something might’ve got jammed up but where is the big question

A bit of a lesson, I have installed hundreds of water heaters and got jammed badly on this one.At least it’s my own property. Time to start blowing the air out of the Pand t valve.

Larry Weingarten

Hello, A trick I use with the hot water side is to back-flush the line to remove any debris from valves or other places where stuff gets caught. I do this by shutting off water to the water heater, then attach a hose to the drain valve and open it. Now go to the shower and cap off the shower arm. Open first hot, then cold, so cold water runs backwards through the hot line back to the heater (which is under no pressure). Let it run a few minutes and then return things to normal and see if flow has improved. Any rust flakes or other junk will now be sitting harmlessly in the bottom of the heater. I imagine it wouldn't be too hard to do something similar with the cold side if you can find water under pressure.

Yours, Larry

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

Hey there, Larry. That's a good trick for flushing out the hot and cold lines, but from what he says I think Gary's problem is in one of the branch lines. Down to the tub filler or up to the shower.

Is this valve a 3-port or 4-port valve. If it's a 3-port valve, is there a twin ell at the spout?

GW

The hot and cold lines are free and clear. I pulled the cartridge and blasted each line separately into a bucket (as to not make a big water mess). Very good flow

Also, brand new cartridge does nothing, same poor flow

It’s a 4 port Delta 1300

The blockage seems to be in the lower valve body. I never really paid attention to how these valves work, yet the mixed water normally flows down, then of the tub diverter is up, the water is forced back up to the shower head.

I ran a hose into the bathroom and tried back flowing the tub line and the shower line. Both are the same (makes sense, the water must enter the same bottom port of the valve)

I’ll search the web some more, 99% of the searches lead to a stuck cartridge, which is not my problem

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

So, there's only one port that leaves the valve for both tub and shower? This makes sense since both are constricted.

I'd get a compressor in there with the cartridge removed (water off); rig up a schrader valve on a half inch nipple on the tub spout outlet and blast some 100 psi air though that port to dislodge the debris.

This reference is for informational purposes only and does not constitute a suggestion of conduct. However, if you try this on your own, don't go commando on us. Wear adequate protective gear; goggles, gloves, hardhat, etc. : )

JUGHNE

Would the old WH been of the age of failing plastic dip tubes?
Then your pipe wrenching could have sent this debris up into the tub valve?

GW

I’m unclear how the debris could have passed through the cartridge though

100 psi, that would blow out anything. Good idea

I just don’t know if it’s hardness or a junk blob

I’ll call delta tomorrow and see if there’s someone that can answer something beyond simple questions

Laundryman69

Any update?

GW

Yes I ran vinegar through the valve for 30 minutes. Good as new. I’ve never heard of such an issue on this topic, ever. I love it when the odd ball stuff punches me in the nose, makes me “keep me eyes open”

Delta was useless. I tried to get a more senior tech on the phone but the entry level tech had his marching orders.

clammy

Gary does the hot water heater have one of those thermal chk in the outlet .is that a pressure balance type valve ? Do u have any hot water distrubition issues at other fixtures ,are any of the toilets fluid water running a bit .also is there any pressure differential between the hot and cold water lines if it’s a presssure balance valve it could be a issue ,have u removed the tub spout and shower head , I remember in a former job having a issue w older moon where the spool would get stuck w debris . Aside from debris the only thing that changed was the tank before u had issues ,I think I would see if there a thermal chk in the tank and if the other tank had one or not Peace and good luck clammy

GW

Thanks for checking, the place was fully re-plumbed in 1998. A new t-s valve was installed in 2011 or so. When I installed a new wh last summer, that's when things went south. All the hot and cold is very normal. Stuff you see every day.

Yes, the cartridge got stuck, big time. It took me 45 mins to an hour to get it out, in pieces. When I finally got the new one it, i was mortified to see that the water flow was equally dismal. It took me losing a tenant to finally getting enough time and energy to deal with this (he didn't complain, but I knew it was a pain. Plus, his girlfriend moved out well before he did-------I can't help but wonder of the I/ the Delta caused a break up)