A VERY Long Wall Hung Steam Radiator In A School Classroom

Gordo

Still pictures of this monster don't do it justice. This thing is l-o-n-g. It was installed 93 years ago on a Dunham steam system. Basically, when we found it, the only thing that was keeping it from falling off the wall was the one inch steam supply piping at one end and the bottom bracket at the other (trap) end. The trap end bracket was the only one not cracked, but the top hardware had stripped out.

There were only a total of three brackets installed in 1924 holding this thing up in the first place. They originally anchored the three pieces of wood to the plaster-on-brick wall and mounted the hardware on the wood to hang the radiator.

Before we began work, we supported the radiator with temporary cribbing as shown in the video. Complicating the issue is the 1/2" return piping underneath the entire length of the radiator.

Years of "treasure" had been deposited behind the radiator preventing it from being brought to an upright position, and the debris had to be removed next.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5x1Yw2cNm8

EBEBRATT-Ed

HAHA. Treasure is awesome! Nothing beats a unit ventilator from a school classroom. Pencils, pens, erasers, chewing gum, paper, chalk and melted crayons.

Wow, never seen one that long. Amazing that it didn't fall over and land on someone.

Gordo

Thanks @EBEBRATT-Ed !
Radiators like that were put in in the days when the windows were left open year round. Fresh air will keep our children safe!

Fred

Wow! That's a monster! With only three brackets and I'm sure kids hanging off of it during the off season, it's a wonder it didn't split in the middle. If that radiator could talk, it would sing praises for the summer breaks.

Steamhead

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is one of many reasons why @Gordo is my partner.

newagedawn

wow, that thing is a monster, longest ive seen, its gotta be a world record,...lol

Erin Holohan Haskell

Wow!

ChrisJ

Steamhead said:

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is one of many reasons why @Gordo is my partner.

We all know it's only because he likes Springsteen.

BobC

Bruce was the best sideman Roy Orbison ever had.

Bob

DanHolohan

Oh my.

Steamhead

BobC said:

Bruce was the best sideman Roy Orbison ever had.

Bob

He's referring to the "A Black and White Night" concert where a whole bunch of musicians, including Bruce, backed Orbison. It's out on DVD- highly recommended.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Both are great but there's no one like the big O

kcopp

What is the EDR on that bad boy?!

Gordo

Once we secured the radiator and were reasonably confident that it wasn't going to come crashing down on us, we disconnected the old 1" Dunham radiator valve and wrenched it off the supply pipe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odLe_3fVpq0

We then installed a new 1" Danfoss thermostatic radiator valve.

DanHolohan

The Lost Art lives. Thanks, guys.

Grallert

That is a cool wrench.

BobC

A wrench designed today would break if you put a 3 ft pipe on it because the accountants would see to it that just barely enough steel was put into it to support it's designed handle length.

I've pulled old wrenches out of the trash and brought them home to restore. You do get some odd stares when your walking down the block with a rusty old two foot wrench on your shoulder but the neighbors know where to come when they need to borrow a pipe wrench.

Bob

hot_rod

I like the "steam service"gloves also. Good save on that radiator.

gerry gill

very cool..amazingly big radiator. How are you going to hold it with the broken supports?

EBEBRATT-Ed

She protested but gave up!!!! Electrical EMT the best cheater pipes ever invented!!!

Gordo

@gerry gill I'm glad you asked! Here is a video of the finished work on that radiator. Superstrut/Kindorf is wonderful stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Y996sTRt1I

Also, please note the addition of the new 6" masonry lag screws.

JUGHNE

If you slightly smash the end of the EMT it will jam tightly onto the pipe wrench handle and be easier to work with....just one long handle then. I use a hammer to knock them off when done.

Gordo

And here is the test.

The boiler is on and running. The steam is in the pipes, waiting impatiently.

The Danfoss TRV actuator is turned on... and, wow! There's the steam!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIJbtcrWC6s

kcopp

What is the edr of that rad?

Gordo

@kcopp : This particular radiator is 119 EDR.

lchmb

ok..where do I find that pipe wrench? nice job as always guys

Gordo

@lchmb & @Grallert : That wrench is a "compound leverage wrench" made by Ridgid. The one shown is the smallest of that type, the model "S-2", part # 31375.

It is listed optimistically as being able to handle 2" pipe, but in reality, 1-1/2" is pushing it.

This wrench type uses a second class lever to apply tremendous torque in a tight space. "Second class" just means that the fulcrum point is at one end of the lever, the load is in the middle, and the force is applied at the other end.

The classic example of a second class lever is the wheelbarrow.

Classic examples of first class levers are a see-saw or a trebuchet.
An example of a third-class lever is the elbow and forearm.

LionA29

Awesome Job @Gordo

bandito

I'm new to learning about steam heating. So the bizarre questions begin. Before supply steam is reconnected to the radiator, are radiators pressurized to blow out possible corrosion/sediment? I grew up on the East coast but have lived in California most of my adult life and don't see these old radiators out here. Thanks.

Hitzkup

Nice Job, I like that.

Gordo said:

@kcopp : This particular radiator is 119 EDR.

And what is the right size needed for that room today? is the ceiling still the original height? the wall still not insulated?

DanHolohan

I believe its main purpose was to make the children sleepy.

Steamhead

The windows have mostly been upgraded, but there are still some originals. Also, there was no fresh-air intake to these rooms (though it was possible to add this capability to standard radiators) so they may have assumed some windows would be at least part way open.

Fred

bandito said:

I'm new to learning about steam heating. So the bizarre questions begin. Before supply steam is reconnected to the radiator, are radiators pressurized to blow out possible corrosion/sediment? I grew up on the East coast but have lived in California most of my adult life and don't see these old radiators out here. Thanks.

If you have the radiator out, for some reason, perhaps in the yard, it is a good idea to hose them out and wash any crud out of them. Also, if you bought a used rad and are unsure of it's viability, pressurizing it before hauling it into the house and connecting it is the smart thing to do. If it is in place and you know it doesn't leak, there is very little reason to wash it out or pressurize it.

JohnNY

I know those radiators well. We replaced 74 of them in two floors of a building in NYC a couple years ago. At the client's request, we put Charleston Pro rads in their place and did the whole job over three weeks working 7PM-1AM.
Time-and-a-half for all involved. Except me.
Most were about 7 feet long but a few were over 15.
Definitely a job for the young guys...

kcopp

JohnNY said:

I know those radiators well. We replaced 74 of them in two floors of a building in NYC a couple years ago. At the client's request, we put Charleston Pro rads in their place and did the whole job over three weeks working 7PM-1AM.
Time-and-a-half for all involved. Except me.
Most were about 7 feet long but a few were over 15.
Definitely a job for the young guys...

What did you do w/ the old rads?

JohnNY

The building kept them.

Steamhead

This is in the Midtown Academy, a charter school housed in the old Corpus Christi Catholic School which we're told closed in the 1970s. One of the more-typical radiators is this American Peerless 4-column monster in the front stairway. It has a new TRV and a rebuilt trap.

Steamhead

Here's how you add crossover vent traps to H-pattern F&T traps. This is one of two drop risers (this is an overhead or Mills system, with the steam main in the attic) at the far end of the building. The trap is a Nicholson high-capacity unit that we wanted to use up- the Barnes & Jones crossover traps do the same thing for much less money.

Steamhead

In the old gym, now used partly as a lunchroom/assembly room and partly as classrooms, we find wall radiators mounted high above the boiler's waterline.



You can see how the system evolved. In 1924, when this Dunham Vapor system was installed, it had a coal-fired boiler and was all one zone. At some point, probably when it was converted to oil, the gym zone was split off from the main building.

Note how there is a plugged tee on the drop riser just above the F&T trap. This originally fed the wall radiator. It also explains why the steam main for the gym was run below the dry return, which led to a problem..........

Steamhead

..... how do you drain the condensate from the main?



This obviously causes lots of banging. Not sure what arrangements they had originally but they are long gone now. We expect to install a couple F&T traps and run a new down-pitched dry return to the boiler room after school is out for the summer.

Steamhead

In the boiler room, we find a gas-fired Weil-McLain 6-88. When we got there it was set up to maintain pressure all the time, and we later discovered the main zone valve didn't always close. The actuators are Honeywell ML6984s, and they were daisy-chained from one transformer, which the instructions specifically prohibit. We replaced the bad actuator and separated the 24-volt power cables so each ZV had its own power cable.

I like to use these DPDT fan center relays since each one has a 40VA transformer. One pole of each unit's relay provides Series 20 control to the zone valve, and the other is wired as an on-off switch in the burner control circuit. In this way, the zone thermostat operates the zone valve and the burner at the same time, and the ZV power comes from the same transformer that operates the relay. The wiring will probably be rerouted at some point after a few other changes are made.

We also replaced and remounted both thermostats so they were not too close to radiators and were easier for adults to get to.



More coming!