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New, NYC gas pipe code change or a ConEd preference?

john p_2
john p_2 Member Posts: 360
Attempting to have a 50kw natural gas generator installed in NYC and being told we cannot have galvanized pipe outdoors and black pipe indoors: two different types of pipe on the gas - as an NYC plumbing code violation.

Seems very suspect to me, they may have confused what Con ED wants to see and not it's not necessarily a code issue at all. Any ideas?

Comments

  • rbeck
    rbeck Member Posts: 56
    This came up multiple times, national code does not matter some locals do like in Philly.
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 10,360
    Most gas codes do NOT allow galvanized pipe on gas. Not sure what New York wants.

  • john p_2
    john p_2 Member Posts: 360
    Have used galvanized and been inspected all over NJ/NY markets with no issue.
    Do not care to get in debates with non-believers about galvanized pipe.
    All I will say is use only American made pipe & fittings and have never had an issue. Many years ago American pipe had issues but these have been resolved for years.

    Now it's pipe from India & Indonesia, Vietnam and fittings from China that I see many issues with. Pipe is out of round, on larger welded pipe the ID's & OD do not match up and finding pin holes in fittings from China.
    j a_2Solid_Fuel_ManHydroNiCK
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 10,360
    I am fine with galvanized if allowed by code. Just saying here in MA. galvanized is strictly prohibited.

    Codes differ across the country.

    Agree about the foreign stuff
  • JohnNY
    JohnNY Member Posts: 2,761
    "Never had an issue" doesn't mean anything to an NYC Dept of Buildings inspector. In fact, they take those words as a challenge. I've never tried to use galvanized pipe on gas in NYC and lately, since the 2nd Ave explosion, there is no getting creative when installing or altering gas pipe in the City. Everything passes or fails "at the discretion of the inspector" having little or nothing to do with National Fuel Gas Code. If the inspector said no galvanized, then you've got to get rid of the galvanized. All your efforts to reverse his decision will be in vain. Trust me.
    Contact John "JohnNY" Cataneo, Master Plumber
    in New York
    in New Jersey
    for Consulting Work
    or take his class.
    kcoppj a_2Paul S_3
  • j a_2
    j a_2 Member Posts: 1,796
    john p said:

    Have used galvanized and been inspected all over NJ/NY markets with no issue.
    Do not care to get in debates with non-believers about galvanized pipe.
    All I will say is use only American made pipe & fittings and have never had an issue. Many years ago American pipe had issues but these have been resolved for years.

    Now it's pipe from India & Indonesia, Vietnam and fittings from China that I see many issues with. Pipe is out of round, on larger welded pipe the ID's & OD do not match up and finding pin holes in fittings from China.

    I tend to agree, and if I did use the import stuff it was not for gas, way to many issues...It threads like crap, and the threaded ends were never correct......But I do remember a pin hole leak on a ward maluable fitting....Man was I pissed.....But hay at least I noticed it...
  • john p_2
    john p_2 Member Posts: 360
    John NY- First, much respect to you and you knowledge of the industry, I have read some of your posts....

    In no way was I thinking of arguing or trying to change an inspectors mind/opinion. Merely saying that I'm being told that I can't use it but not sure yet who actually told the plumber on my generator install that galvanized couldn't be used....Either plumbing inspector or ConEd.

    And actually what I was told was that we couldn't use black pipe and galvanized together, it had to be one or the other....Almost every job done has had a combination of both black and galvanized where exposed to elements, with out an issue, This is what I was referring to as far as "without an issue". And probably because it was called out on the drawings.

    Once in a while we get drawings that don't call for the galvanized but the installers know the client prefers it so it gets installed. That's probably the issue...When its installed but not called out for in the drawings & I nspector picks up on it....

    More scary is working with the utility companies and the people they are sending out to the jobs when a new service is needed. Some are not qualified and cannot answer why they are requesting what they want and worst of all they aren't even employees but contractors. And many times they contradict each other when they revisit sites- with regards to their required method of piping or locations of valves, pressure switches etc...
  • Solid_Fuel_Man
    Solid_Fuel_Man Member Posts: 2,307
    What gets me is an inspector who is not even licenced in the area/ trade they are inspecting. Really?
    Serving Northern Maine HVAC & Controls. I burn wood, it smells good!
  • clammy
    clammy Member Posts: 2,668
    the only comment i can make is here in north jersey i have seen the locale gas company using galv pipe outdoors from there undergrond service comes out of the ground and connects to the meter .Just did a ac replacement and a new gas service was installed very recently and they did galv from the underground to meter and also tied into the existing black pipe which feed a boiler and wh .so who knows what the standard or code really is being inspector really don t seem to question the gas co and have never said boo to me .peace and good luck clammy
    R.A. Calmbacher L.L.C. HVAC
    NJ Master HVAC Lic.
    Mahwah, NJ
    Specializing in steam and hydronic heating
  • rick in Alaska
    rick in Alaska Member Posts: 1,244
    All I use is galvanized so I don't have to worry about salt water corrosion from being next to the water. It is just easier also to only stock one type of pipe and fitting. No problem with any codes here.
    My guess is that the reason they are giving you fits is that the plumbing code doesn't like mixing of dissimilar metals in a plumbing system. I have never figured out how they can be so exact in their wording, however. For instance,can you not hook copper to brass? I have never seen it enforced, but if you get the wrong inspector who doesn't understand the reasoning behind the code, then you are sunk.
    My favorite plumbing code book is the book of interpretations. It explains the reasoning behind most codes, and gives real life examples of what the heck the legal wording even means to us. It is also where I found the rule that says you can pipe a relief valve anywhere from 6" to 24" off the floor. I think it is only 6" now though. Great resource book to have.
    Rick
  • JohnNY
    JohnNY Member Posts: 2,761
    john p said:

    John NY- First, much respect to you and you knowledge of the industry, I have read some of your posts....



    In no way was I thinking of arguing or trying to change an inspectors mind/opinion. Merely saying that I'm being told that I can't use it but not sure yet who actually told the plumber on my generator install that galvanized couldn't be used....Either plumbing inspector or ConEd.



    And actually what I was told was that we couldn't use black pipe and galvanized together, it had to be one or the other....Almost every job done has had a combination of both black and galvanized where exposed to elements, with out an issue, This is what I was referring to as far as "without an issue". And probably because it was called out on the drawings.



    Once in a while we get drawings that don't call for the galvanized but the installers know the client prefers it so it gets installed. That's probably the issue...When its installed but not called out for in the drawings & I nspector picks up on it....



    More scary is working with the utility companies and the people they are sending out to the jobs when a new service is needed. Some are not qualified and cannot answer why they are requesting what they want and worst of all they aren't even employees but contractors. And many times they contradict each other when they revisit sites- with regards to their required method of piping or locations of valves, pressure switches etc...

    Got it. And you're right. But I've been told to use coating on my outdoor gas piping, most recently on a generator install in West Village. Then the client opted to have the pipe encapsulated instead. Still waiting for inspection on that one... Lord knows what the inspector's going to come up with now.
    Contact John "JohnNY" Cataneo, Master Plumber
    in New York
    in New Jersey
    for Consulting Work
    or take his class.
  • john p_2
    john p_2 Member Posts: 360
    Lol, good luck...and that's exactly why my employer always requests galvanized. Trying to prevent a maintenance issue on their sites; eliminate painting the pipe.
  • HydroNiCK
    HydroNiCK Member Posts: 113
    We use galvanized outside and black pipe inside all day everyday on the Isle of Long.