Burnham Independence Skim Tapping

Danny Scully

To anyone I might have lead astray, I just came across a Burnham Indepence with a 1" skim tapping. So, while they list 1" and it's usually 1-1/4", I did actually find this one to be 1" in the casting. In any event, be ready for both scenarios.

New England SteamWorks

Best scenario: don't install an IN at all...

ChrisJ

RI_SteamWorks said:

Best scenario: don't install an IN at all...

What would you recommend he install?

Danny Scully

@RI_SteamWorks is a 3-pass guy! Anyway, I mainly only install Independences when they are offered through National Grid. I didn't install this one, I'm just adding a skim tapping. I like New Yorkers better (or Crown, or Force), even though they're all the same block. I don't feel there is a quality difference, they just come packaged nicer and the plugs are easier to remove.

ChrisJ

Danny Scully said:

@RI_SteamWorks is a 3-pass guy! Anyway, I mainly only install Independences when they are offered through National Grid. I didn't install this one, I'm just adding a skim tapping. I like New Yorkers better (or Crown, or Force), even though they're all the same block. I don't feel there is a quality difference, they just come packaged nicer and the plugs are easier to remove.

I suppose that's one way to put it.

I've got a feeling you, and many others would gladly install a Megasteam with gas if Burnham allowed it.

But they don't.

And it is what it is.

New England SteamWorks

> @ChrisJ said:
> Best scenario: don't install an IN at all...
>
> What would you recommend he install?

I would go Weil EG or Peerless 63 series.

New England SteamWorks

Or Williamson, same as EG.

EBEBRATT-Ed

from the # of commercial Burnham V9s &V11s I have seen leak just can't go there

ChrisJ

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

from the # of commercial Burnham V9s &V11s I have seen leak just can't go there

What do you want? It's very diffifcult to make a cast iron boiler that won't leak.

Ask our neighbor's 1920s RedFlash 3 pass that uses the same city water that rotted out two Burnham V8's in 8 years. When we moved here, all of their packing nuts were leaking and half the vents were spewing steam so that boiler has taken in a lot of fresh water. It's still going. My system, that rotted the two V8's had leaks too of course, but I wouldn't say more than the Redflash had.


You'll hear stories regarding efficiency and water quantity etc.

Me...........I'm less impressed than McKayla Maroney

Mad Dog_2

They've all had their problems. I still don't hesitate to recd them. As long as they make it right Mad Dog

EBEBRATT-Ed

True, sadly we used to replace boilers that were 30+ years old. Now there shot in 10 years or less if badly neglected.

Water quality is more of an issue, especially because they (the boilers) are being pushed harder, hold less water, higher ratings to meet competition..............

Paul48

I know the old boilers had much thicker castings, but still, if it were a water quality issue, they'd be rotting out sooner too. Folks replace a 60 year old boiler, for no other reason than to improve efficiency, then they start having water quality issues?

ChrisJ

Paul48 said:

I know the old boilers had much thicker castings, but still, if it were a water quality issue, they'd be rotting out sooner too. Folks replace a 60 year old boiler, for no other reason than to improve efficiency, then they start having water quality issues?

Often yes.
Did you see my comment? Our neighbor's Redflash 3 pass has been there since the 1920s. Our previous owner had two Burnahm V8 blocks rott out in 8 years, using the same city water as that Redflash. Likely same quantities as well. Before I helped to fix everything I bet that Redflash was taking on a good 10 gallons a week during a cold snap.

There's no comparison.

Regarding the V8s, his first block failed in only 3 years. The second went 5-ish. It was pretty bad by the time I got it.

Same exact water that Redflash has been using and yet, it's still there.

Fred

There is/may be another reason that people seem to ignore. Back when the old boiler were cast, they used virgin ore. Today, a huge portion of the casting is made up of recycled materials, quality unknown and I think they put additives into the melting process to create a homogenous mix. I believe the quality of the cast iron components, being thinner are also inferior in composition quality. They tout recycling as environmentally friendly but I don't think they consider the shorter product life, the collection costs, the processing costs or the re-manufacturing cost. JMHO

EBEBRATT-Ed

@Paul48 ,What I said was Water quality is more important with the new boilers because of the higher ratings, greater heat release.

I have experience with Miura high pressure steam boilers. They hold so little water for the btu input it is down right scary. A 100 hp boiler from a cold start will get the steam up to 100 psi in less than 5 min when connected to the system.

They will last , but the water quality has to be perfect.

A Cleaver Brooks Scotch marine needs (should have) good water as well but can tolerate bad water without immediate disasterous results.

It's the same water, it's how it's used and and the effect the boilers heat release has on it same as the old Red Flash and the Burnham above.

Just one cause of failures

Paul48

I don't buy it, and agree with Fred. It's crap casting. If you have scattered random failures, you could blame it on water chemistry. When you get to the failure rate they are at, it's time to stop the BS.

EBEBRATT-Ed

I don't disagree, of course the castings aren't as good as they used to be. But that's not the only thing going on.

Didn't say water quality caused all failures, It's just part of the story.

I am not getting my point across.

I'm saying pushing boilers hard, trying to get higher ratings causes more mineral build up and other things with boiler water chemistry that leads to boiler failure even if the initial fill water and the make-up water is perfectly fine.

jmho

Paul48

I get your point, and here's my thinking. They may have believed that their boilers would last 20+ years. They designed to absolute minimum standard. Now their boilers are failing in half the time. Welllll.........that's not all bad, from a manufacturing standpoint. They'll sell more boilers. They just have to make it the consumers fault. Remember "Walking Shoes"? You had to pay twice as much, if you wanted a shoe designed to walk in. Maybe they'll do the same with their boilers, and you can pay more for boilers designed for water.

Danny Scully

You guys want to start your own thread? This was about the (varying) size of the skim tapping on a Burnham Independence. Just wanted service techs to know I found one with a cast in 1" tapping. Although Burnham lists the tapping as 1", it's usually 1-1/4". So, if you're adding a skim station to a Burnham Independence, be prepared for both situations.

Paul48

You're right...I apologize. All the other posts were un-necessary.

Danny Scully

No need to apologize @Paul48! I just want to make sure my point wasn't lost.

RomanGK_26986764589

Water quality plays a huge part. I have to drain and clean my WM Eg 40 twice a year. Usually around February for it to last another half of the winter. Otherwise water starts surging and all vents hissing. First I blamed it on oils but it does not seem to be the case. Water comes out really dark chocolatey with some chunks. Steam master does not seem to be helping either.

BobC

I have not changed the water in my steam boiler since it was installed in 2012.

I put steam master in when it was new and let it be. I do flush the bottom a couple of times a year and the water has always been a little murky but clean. I added another steam master tablet last year to make up for the water I've drained over time.

Bob

RomanGK_26986764589

@BobC That's awesome! I wish I could say the same. But even steam master doesn't seem to help on mine. Just today all of my rads went into a hissing fit. I went to the cellar and yep, it's that time of the year again. The 0-3 psi gauge is all over the place and dirty surging water with chunks in a sight glass. Probably gonna clean it over the weekend if the weather permits. The boiler was wand cleaned in September.

Paul48

@RomanGK_26986764589

When was the last time any attention was paid to the wet return?

RomanGK_26986764589

@Paul48 This September when the boiler was re piped. But I had exact same issue last year. And the previous owner also mentioned that the boiler would gunk up in mid winter.

LionA29

@RomanGK_26986764589 didn't EZzyT repiped that boiler?
Did you addressed that issue of gunk and chunks with him?
That's interesting to have that problem after all that work.
My gauge doesn't do that, it's pretty steady. I do drain a cup of merky water then cleared.

New England SteamWorks

I heard a rep a year ago say the problem began when the EPA mandated that only water-soluble oils can be used in castings now-a-days. But if you Google water soluble oils and castings you get zip. And I am not sure what oils have to do with castings, -but I thought I'd throw it out for us to chew on.

Danny Scully

Now the notifications are getting annoying

j a_2

Oil guys like Weil McLain,,,,Gas guys generally like peerless or burnham.....They all have issues, not one is better than the other,in my opinion....What makes the boiler is the installer..Jmo

RomanGK_26986764589

@LionA29 Yep, Ezzy re piped it. We attributed dirty water issues to a neglected boiler and Ezzy cleaned it well with a wand.