Leaking from the radiator air valves?

samad107

Hello everyone I ran into some problems this morning any suggestions would be great. I have steam heating in my home. I recently purchased the home so I am not too familiar with all the terminology nor am I too knowledgeable regarding heating systems..

When I woke up the thermostat read Inside temperature was at 71 when it was set to 69 (which was odd), the temperature in the house actually felt much colder than 71 (felt more like 65). I then set the temperature to 75 which was followed by some concerning rattling, I am used the the normal rattling when the furnace starts up but this was very excessive and sounded very concerning. 4 minutes go by and 3 of the radiators start leaking water from the air valves (1 in kitchen on first floor, 1 in living room in first floor, and one in second floor).

This is the first time anything like this happened and I turned off the heat after that. I checked out the boiler room and it was unusually warm in there. The thermostat currently reads 73 (feels much colder) and remains unchanged even after having the heat off for a few hours (its 35 degrees out, so I'm assuming there should have been a change in temp by now?). Could it be my thermostat? Any thoughts?

Abracadabra

for the noise, are all radiator valves completely open?
Can you take a video of the noise and post here or on youtube?

samad107

Yes the valves are open everything was fine until this morning. I am at work now and cant until the evening. But it looks like the temperature it displays 73 but it is freezing at home according to my sister.

Abracadabra

if it's 73 then it's either 73 or your thermometer is broken.
working thermometers don't lie.

MilanD

Thermostat issue may be unrelated to water coming out of radiator vents. What kind of thermostat is it? I've replaced more of the old round mercury ones than I cared (apartment rentals) - it's amazing some can be there for 40 years...

As to water from vents, there was another thread yesterday with a lady having had this same issue with vents being a fountain shooting water 4 ft in the air. You may have partially open radiator valve (these should be open all the way or closed all the way - not half way). Half-open valve may run into issue of not letting the condensate drain. Steam will still push in there (esp. if your operating pressure is high), and eventually it will fill the radiator with the condensate and the pressure will push the water out of the vent like old glory. Your op pressure may be too high and it might be carrying condensate up the rad into vent and pushing water out... you may have a stuck vent... there are a few things to look at before diagnosing this.

BobC

Did you look at the water level in the boiler? It's possible something has developed a leak and the boiler has been inadvertently overfilled.

Bob

MilanD

After re-reading, sounds like new thermostat is in order. Ask your sitter if the boiler is coming on at all?

Have her dial that thermostat all the way up and see if that kicks it on. If not, is there power to the boiler? Has the breaker gone off and cut the power to it?

If you have rattling noise followed by water coming out of your vents, do you have a condensate return motor and is the boiler on when this is happening? How is water level on the sight glass? Has the water stopped coming out of vents? Sometimes the condensate motor relay float switch may get stuck on and flood the boiler and pipes with water. I'm not sure if that's what it's called technically - it's a switch activated by drop in water level. If it gets stuck and stays on, it will pump the water all the way up to radiators and have radiators spill water out. You would see water on your radiators that are the lowest on the system, or closest to the boiler... I've seen this happen too.

If all this checks out, replace thermostat. Faulty one can cause all sorts of havoc on the system.

If this still doesn't turn on the system, it may be something you should place a call to a pro now. It's easier to get them to come 9-5 than after 5, and definitely cheaper.

samad107

I replaced the mercury thermostat with a simple Honeywell Digital thermostat 2 months ago.

Abracadabra said:

if it's 73 then it's either 73 or your thermometer is broken.
working thermometers don't lie.

Okay I was worried if something from the furnace could be causing a incorrect temperature display.

samad107

MilanD said:

Thermostat issue may be unrelated to water coming out of radiator vents. What kind of thermostat is it? I've replaced more of the old round mercury ones than I cared (apartment rentals) - it's amazing some can be there for 40 years...

As to water from vents, there was another thread yesterday with a lady having had this same issue with vents being a fountain shooting water 4 ft in the air. You may have partially open radiator valve (these should be open all the way or closed all the way - not half way). Half-open valve may run into issue of not letting the condensate drain. Steam will still push in there (esp. if your operating pressure is high), and eventually it will fill the radiator with the condensate and the pressure will push the water out of the vent like old glory. Your op pressure may be too high and it might be carrying condensate up the rad into vent and pushing water out... you may have a stuck vent... there are a few things to look at before diagnosing this.

I don't believe that they are half open. The radiator valves themselves were all recently replaced with brand new ones too. But I am seeing the something similar to the shooting water you mentioned. My kitchen was soaked in water and would have probably flooded if I didn't turn off the valve when I noticed the water.

samad107

BobC said:

Did you look at the water level in the boiler? It's possible something has developed a leak and the boiler has been inadvertently overfilled.

Bob

MilanD said:

After re-reading, sounds like new thermostat is in order. Ask your sitter if the boiler is coming on at all?

Have her dial that thermostat all the way up and see if that kicks it on. If not, is there power to the boiler? Has the breaker gone off and cut the power to it?

If you have rattling noise followed by water coming out of your vents, do you have a condensate return motor and is the boiler on when this is happening? How is water level on the sight glass? Has the water stopped coming out of vents? Sometimes the condensate motor relay float switch may get stuck on and flood the boiler and pipes with water. I'm not sure if that's what it's called technically - it's a switch activated by drop in water level. If it gets stuck and stays on, it will pump the water all the way up to radiators and have radiators spill water out. You would see water on your radiators that are the lowest on the system, or closest to the boiler... I've seen this happen too.

If all this checks out, replace thermostat. Faulty one can cause all sorts of havoc on the system.

If this still doesn't turn on the system, it may be something you should place a call to a pro now. It's easier to get them to come 9-5 than after 5, and definitely cheaper.

The boiler comes on, I am not sure about the condensate return moter (not sure what this is). The water did not stop coming out of the vents according to my sister so she shut off all the valves. I will check the sight when I get home. It does not look like I can do much till I am home any way. Thank you for your responses and I will update later on.

Fred

Look at the sight glass on the boiler and make sure it is only 1/2 to 2/3's full. It sounds like your auto water feeder may be leaking water past the valve and over filling the boiler. Also, check your Pressuretrol (gray box mounted on on a pigtail (looped pipe). The scale on the front should be set to .5 PSI and the white wheel inside should be set to "1" facing the front of the box. Also, it is very possible the pigtail is clogged and the Pressuretrol can't see the pressure. That pigtail should be cleaned annually. Take the two wires off of the Pressuretrol and use a wrench to unscrew the hex brass fitting on the bottom of the Pressuretrol that is screwed onto the pigtail. Blow into the pigtail to see if it's clear. If not take the pigtail off and clean it out. Finally, it sounds like the Thermostat may not be working properly but check the water level and Pressuretrol/pigtail first.

Grallert

Sure sounds like you have a flooded boiler. And what @Fred said about the pigtail.

samad107

The boiler is full. After i let out the water it fills up again

samad107

Is this the pigtail ?

samad107

Here are some more photos if they help with anything.

samad107

Here are some more photos if they help

MilanD

So, your autofeeder, or pressure reducing valve have failed and city water is pushing into the boiler as if it were, say, a bath tub. There should be a shut off valve to that feeder. Turn it off.

I'll post this then I'll type on.

Gordo

Please make sure any valves to feed domestic water to your boiler are shut off. Do you have an automatic water feeder on your system and what type is it?

Find the boiler drain valve (it should have a male hose connection on it) and drain your boiler. If the water has gotten so high up in your system that it is squirting out of your vents, draining your boiler may take a very long while.

The drain from your boiler may be clogged, so you may have to drain it via the McD/Miller #67 low water cut off. That will take even longer to get the water to the proper level.

Consider getting a sightglass drain valve installed to test it and keep it clean.

MilanD

You need to let out any excess water. Leave it at about 1/2 of the sight glass. With boiler feed valve off, you should be able to restart the boiler and not freeze tonight.

MilanD

System should be able to run like this for a few days.

You now need to figure out what went: auto feeder or the prv aka pressure reducing valve.

MilanD

If you are not certain how to do this, call around and find a competent steam guy. I'd start with replacing the prv. They usually don't last that long.

Abracadabra

Pics of the water feeder?

Fred

@samad107 , you most likely have a McDonnell Miller 101A water feeder on your system. It is a black unit, mounter right on your water line near or behind the boiler. There is a red button on it that allows you to manually feed water. Those water feeders have a solenoid in them that opens and closes the internal water valve and they also have a screen on the chamber on the bottom of the feeder that can clog. I suspect your solenoid has either failed or dirt/crud is holding the valve open letting water continue to feed the boiler and over filling it. Find the manual water valve located somewhere just before the water feeder and turn if off. Leave it off until you either get the feeder fixed or replaced. You can manually check and add water to the boiler to keep the sight glass 1/2 to 2/3's full. Check it two or three times a week. Drain the boiler down until the water level is where it should be. If you leave the water feeder on, in a few hours you will have water pouring out of your main vents and all of your radiator vents, ruining your home. Post back to us if you have gotten the feeder shut down.

samad107

Fred said:

@samad107 , you most likely have a McDonnell Miller 101A water feeder on your system. It is a black unit, mounter right on your water line near or behind the boiler. There is a red button on it that allows you to manually feed water. Those water feeders have a solenoid in them that opens and closes the internal water valve and they also have a screen on the chamber on the bottom of the feeder that can clog. I suspect your solenoid has either failed or dirt/crud is holding the valve open letting water continue to feed the boiler and over filling it. Find the manual water valve located somewhere just before the water feeder and turn if off. Leave it off until you either get the feeder fixed or replaced. You can manually check and add water to the boiler to keep the sight glass 1/2 to 2/3's full. Check it two or three times a week. Drain the boiler down until the water level is where it should be. If you leave the water feeder on, in a few hours you will have water pouring out of your main vents and all of your radiator vents, ruining your home. Post back to us if you have gotten the feeder shut down.

Thank you It looks like you were right, I had a heating guy come out and take a look at it and he said that the water feeder has failed. He replaced it and said it was full of crap and also cleaned out the other part that lets you drain the water. All this stuff is very new to me (just became home owner few months ago) I have learned a lot for the next time. After replacing that Mcdonnel Miller 101A and his cleaning. We had working heat! The glass stays around 1/2 to 2/3's full most of the time but sometimes it jumps closer to full while the heat is on. Is that normal? Also on pricing he charged me EDIT: *removed price* . Is this price fair for this type of work? He said my part was a bit more expensive since I had a 24V Miller. And again thank you for yours and everyones help!

Fred

We don't discuss pricing on this site, but given the cost of the 101A, and the other work, I'd say he was reasonable. Glad you have a working system again! The water in the sight glass will normally bounce a half inch to an inch. It is possible your boiler needs to be drained and cleaned but that can wait until after the heating season if you aren't having any other issues/symptoms.