First Time Steammaster user

RomanGK_26986764589

Good Evening

So today I finally decided to try Steammaster!
First I hot skimmed and flushed my Weil McLain EG 40 boiler. I skimmed until the water ran clear. Then I flushed from the bottom and boy the water was dirty. It looked like coffee. And the boiler was not in use much and was cleaned at the end of September! Maybe 4-5 steaming days in total. I think my boiler doesn't really like our water softener.
So I flushed it as best as I could under 80 psi city water pressure until the water was clear. Refilled the boiler, bypassing the water softener, and cold skimmed again just in case and then dropped 1 steam master tablet. My city water PH is 5.5 - 6. So after steaming for some time the water in a sight glass turned slightly violet. We'll see how it behaves this time. I saw pictures where some of you guys had water which was more violet then mine. Maybe I should add another tablet to make it more violet?

Fred

Two tablets at the most. Do you typically feed water into the boiler with softened water? I wouldn't do that.

BobC

Most water softeners use sodium which will eat up a boiler, feed the boiler with a takeoff before the water softener.

Do you know what the water might contain, is it well water? And finally where do you live, some areas of the country have known water problems.

I agree that two tablets is the maximum for most residetial boilers. My boiler holds about 10 gallons and one Steamaster tablet is fine for me.

Bob

RomanGK_26986764589

@Fred I fed the boiler through the water softener during previous winter and I did not like the results as I had to flush and clean the boiler in mid winter because it became really rusty and dirty. That got me suspicious about using a water softener with a boiler.
@BobC I live in NJ and we have a city water. It's rather hard (9 grains) and the PH is around 6.

BobC

You might try measuring the PH, between 8 and 9 sb ok.

Bob

RomanGK_26986764589

I will as soon as get more reliable testing strips, the ones where you actually can discern colors. In case I need to add one more tablet do I need to drain and flush the boiler again or can I just drop an extra one after the boiler has steamed and cooled down a bit?

Fred

You can just add another tablet.

ChrisJ

If the water is violet the PH is safe, it's above 7.
Steamaster turns blue when the PH is too low and it'll do it at any time.


I run 2 tablets in my EG-40 with no problems at all, but 3 causes issues. If you run into an issue, drain some water out and add fresh until the issue goes away.

RomanGK_26986764589

@ChrisJ Thanks for the pictures. Mine is exactly like your first photo, maybe a bit lighter I'm good then. You're the one who swayed me towards using steam master in the first place. My water was exactly like yours before you started using the tablets.

ChrisJ

RomanGK_26986764589 said:

@ChrisJ Thanks for the pictures. Mine is exactly like your first photo, maybe a bit lighter I'm good then. You're the one who swayed me towards using steam master in the first place. My water was exactly like yours before you started using the tablets.

Toss another tablet in (a second one) when you have some time to watch it, and see what happens.

If the water level in the gauge glass is as steady as before, and things seem to work well leave it alone. The more the better, as long as it doesn't cause problems. Just remember, it takes time to fully dissolve.

3 in my system caused my pressure to rise higher than normal, I assume due to foaming. No harm will be done though, you'll just need to drain some water out and refill to get the dose back down.

ChrisJ

Here's an example of what 3 tablets did in my system.

With no tablets, or 2, this pressure gauge barely moves. Maybe half way to the first large line, at the absolute most.

With 3 tablets, it was doing what you see in the video until it hit 8" WC and tripped the Ecosteam pressure switch.

https://youtu.be/NAtcDLePJis



What was odd, is my water line was still fairly stable even with this going on but look how dark purple it is. The steam was from a bucket of boiler water.

https://youtu.be/dPIx0xnEVUo

RomanGK_26986764589

My water line bounces about the same. Approximately half an inch. I may toss another one and see what happens.

Koan

@RomanGK_26986764589 , @ChrisJ , @Fred

I have been looking for Steammaster but no luck so far - would you please share where I might be able to find it?? I am in Baltimore.

RomanGK_26986764589

@Koan I found mine at Sid Harvey's. But I live in New Jersey and I don't really know if they are in Baltimore.

Koan

Thank you - not in Maryland at all but there is a branch in York PA.

Sailah

So I called Rector Seal and asked them why this is so difficult to get. Spoke to the rep in my area, who amazingly lives in my home town. We sell to the the same distributors. Hoping he can finagle a few cases my way and I'll make sure that the steam master tablets are easily available to all.

Fred

That's great. Many on this site will appreciate that! I have a bottle from 3 years ago and I've only used 4 tablets out of it. I still sit on the fence in terms of if they are needed but every once and a while I decide; "What harm can they do?". Others see a lot of value. I guess it has a lot to do with the quality of the water to begin with.

ChrisJ

Sailah said:

So I called Rector Seal and asked them why this is so difficult to get. Spoke to the rep in my area, who amazingly lives in my home town. We sell to the the same distributors. Hoping he can finagle a few cases my way and I'll make sure that the steam master tablets are easily available to all.

It would also be nice to know why the instructions on the bottle are completely wrong as well. I think it says to use something like 12 tablets in a boiler the size of mine and anything more than 2 is a complete disaster. This has been consistent with everyone, some guys can't use more than 1 tablet.

I emailed Rector Seal several times and was ignored so gave up.

It seems like such a great product with no place to buy it and zero support. Very confusing.

RomanGK_26986764589

I bough mine at Sid Harvey's even though their terms state that they sell to trade only. However, as an HO, I had no problems creating an account there and buying steam master. Maybe only the big stuff like boilers are for trade customers?

RomanGK_26986764589

@ChrisJ This morning I came down to check the boiler and saw the water got more violet compared to a previous day. I guess it did not dissolve completely on the first steaming cycle. Good I did not rush to add more tablets. Will see how my boiler behaves with one tablet for now.

Fred

@ChrisJ , I suspect that most resellers, like Supplyhouse, Amazon, and others discontinued selling it because the people buying it followed the directions on the bottle and then complained that it was the worse stuff on the market because it make their boilers go crazy. I don't know why Rector Seal won't change the instructions.

ChrisJ

Fred said:

@ChrisJ , I suspect that most resellers, like Supplyhouse, Amazon, and others discontinued selling it because the people buying it followed the directions on the bottle and then complained that it was the worse stuff on the market because it make their boilers go crazy. I don't know why Rector Seal won't change the instructions.

Could be, I don't know.

What we do know is the instructions are completely wrong, at least for residential boilers.


@Hatterasguy may be suggesting they want you to use 6 to 12 times the dosage to eat up more tablets. But, it makes people not use it at all, and tell their friends it's junk? So how does that make sense?

hvacfreak2

Last year I added tablets to see what " too much " would do. I stopped at 12 ( as directed on the instructions ) and had no problems. I'm currently using 4 because of the experience from others on here ( and that is twice as much ) but I really wonder if I should use as directed on the instructions.

ChrisJ

hvacfreak2 said:

Last year I added tablets to see what " too much " would do. I stopped at 12 ( as directed on the instructions ) and had no problems. I'm currently using 4 because of the experience from others on here ( and that is twice as much ) but I really wonder if I should use as directed on the instructions.

You're running your boiler with 4 Steamaster tablets in it, and are having no problems at all and managed to use 12 as well?

hvacfreak2

ChrisJ said:

hvacfreak2 said:

Last year I added tablets to see what " too much " would do. I stopped at 12 ( as directed on the instructions ) and had no problems. I'm currently using 4 because of the experience from others on here ( and that is twice as much ) but I really wonder if I should use as directed on the instructions.

You're running your boiler with 4 Steamaster tablets in it, and are having no problems at all and managed to use 12 as well?

Well , the water turns purple with 4 or 12. I didn't see any foaming with more like I've heard could or would happen. Maybe I got a bad batch , or maybe the water that Rectorseal used was like mine when they wrote the instructions ?

ChrisJ

hvacfreak2 said:

ChrisJ said:

hvacfreak2 said:

Last year I added tablets to see what " too much " would do. I stopped at 12 ( as directed on the instructions ) and had no problems. I'm currently using 4 because of the experience from others on here ( and that is twice as much ) but I really wonder if I should use as directed on the instructions.

You're running your boiler with 4 Steamaster tablets in it, and are having no problems at all and managed to use 12 as well?

Well , the water turns purple with 4 or 12. I didn't see any foaming with more like I've heard could or would happen. Maybe I got a bad batch , or maybe the water that Rectorseal used was like mine when they wrote the instructions ?

How long did you leave the 12 in for?

hvacfreak2

Most of last winter , only periodic skims and a 67 blow down or 2. Every so often I would add 1 or 2 tablets if I added make up water. I washed out with Surgemaster before I used any Steamaster and the water line has just been really stable since. I am on well water and I know that it is hard. I intended on doing water testing last year and work got frantic and hasn't stopped.

ChrisJ

That's really interesting.

Hap_Hazzard

I got mine from Amazon, back when they had them, and when I opened the jar it was about half tablets, half powder, so I suspect they stopped selling them because customers complained about the breakage and returned them. I just weighed a few of the more intact-looking tablets and added the powder by weight to get the right dosage. You have to dissolve the stuff to add it anyway.

By the way, I have a funnel connected through a short piece of 1/2 hose to a piece I cut from a new gauge glass. When I fill the boiler, I connect this to the lower gauge fitting and pour the dissolved Steammaster into the funnel.

RomanGK_26986764589

So far so good. Boiler is steaming away with 1 tablet. Considering adding 1 more. Also I've noticed that my 0-3 psi gauge needle shakes when boiler is making steam. Is it normal or a cause for concern?

zackwatt

Fred said:

@ChrisJ , I suspect that most resellers, like Supplyhouse, Amazon, and others discontinued selling it because the people buying it followed the directions on the bottle and then complained that it was the worse stuff on the market because it make their boilers go crazy. I don't know why Rector Seal won't change the instructions.

I am totally shocked that this product has been discontinued! I was just getting ready to order another jar. I'm going to have to hoard the few tablets I have left.

The good news is Rectorseal's other product, "8-WAY" might be a good alternative or the exact product in liquid form: http://www.rectorseal.com/8-way/

It's also available on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Rectorseal-68712-Quart-Boiler-Treatment/dp/B008A3UEA0

After using Steammaster tablets last year with great results, I drained and flushed my boiler at the end of the season. I put 8-WAY in my boiler and steamed while adding feed water to completely overfill it for the summer months.

I drained it down to the normal level last week, and fired it up. All seems to be working pretty good! The only thing to determine is, what's the correct ratio to prevent foaming...

ChrisJ

zackwatt said:

Fred said:

@ChrisJ , I suspect that most resellers, like Supplyhouse, Amazon, and others discontinued selling it because the people buying it followed the directions on the bottle and then complained that it was the worse stuff on the market because it make their boilers go crazy. I don't know why Rector Seal won't change the instructions.

I am totally shocked that this product has been discontinued! I was just getting ready to order another jar. I'm going to have to hoard the few tablets I have left.

The good news is Rectorseal's other product, "8-WAY" might be a good alternative or the exact product in liquid form: http://www.rectorseal.com/8-way/

It's also available on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Rectorseal-68712-Quart-Boiler-Treatment/dp/B008A3UEA0

After using Steammaster tablets last year with great results, I drained and flushed my boiler at the end of the season. I put 8-WAY in my boiler and steamed while adding feed water to completely overfill it for the summer months.

I drained it down to the normal level last week, and fired it up. All seems to be working pretty good! The only thing to determine is, what's the correct ratio to prevent foaming...

Does it also turn the water purple?

zackwatt

ChrisJ said:

Does it also turn the water purple?

It does! The ingredients are different though, but I'm not sure if it's better, worse, or pretty much the same.

Steamaster:
- Sodium Nitrite - % BY WEIGHT: 44.04
- Sodium Triphosphate - % BY WEIGHT: 23.52
- Sodium Metasilicate - % BY WEIGHT: 1.34
- Citric Acid - % BY WEIGHT: 3.36

8-WAY:
- Sodium Phosphate - % BY WEIGHT: 4.87
- Sodium Hydroxide - % BY WEIGHT: 15
- Sodium Nitrite - % BY WEIGHT: 6.78

ChrisJ

Yeah,
My concern there is Sodium Nitrite is the primary corrosion inhibitor.

Not sure what the others in 8-WAY do.
I have a thread somewhere regarding what I found each chemical does in Steamaster with the help of a chemistry forum. One of them was what helped keep minerals from building up in the boiler and another I think helped cause things in the water to bind together and settle to the bottom so they get drained out.

All very beneficial things people don't get by using plain water.

For all I know 8-WAY is just as good, but I don't know what any of the chemicals do. Way above my head.

Fred

@zackwatt said: I am totally shocked that this product has been discontinued! I was just getting ready to order another jar. I'm going to have to hoard the few tablets I have left.
I don't think the tablets have been discontinued (at least not yet) There are just fewer sources carrying it. It would be good to understand why that is.

zackwatt

Fred said:

I don't think the tablets have been discontinued (at least not yet) There are just fewer sources carrying it. It would be good to understand why that is.

Absolutely! I have been wondering why Rectorseal is selling both Steamaster and 8-WAY, when both products claim almost the exact same thing.

ChrisJ

Found my post regarding Steamaster's chemicals.

It wasn't in the thread I thought it was.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------


Found some useful information regarding the main chemicals in Steamaster tablets after talking to some people that know far more than I do.

There are four main chemicals per the MSDS.

1: Sodium Nitrite. % by weight 44.04
2: Sodium Triphosphate % by weight 23.52
3: Sodium Metasilicate % by weight 1.34
4: Citric Acid. % by weight 3.36

Below is the response from someone named macckone.

Sodium Nitrite is a corrosion inhibitor.
Citric acid is to remove scale.
Sodium Triphosphate is a detergent commonly used
on steel to help remove rust and is acidic.
Sodium metasilicate is used as a defloculant.

Both sodium triphosphate and sodium metasilicate
can cause foaming which is bad in a boiler system.

The blue to purple color change suggests a pH indicator.
Before boiling the calcium carbonate load of the water
will be high but it is forced out of solution by boiling.
It is one of the relatively few compounds that is
less soluble at high temperature.

Citric acid will dissolve most metal oxides and carbonates.

The sodium nitrite will also lowers oxide levels which is
important in protecting steel.

Sodium Triphosphate is an acidic form which binds with
calcium as well as iron oxide. This helps remove rust but
can cause foaming.

Sodium metasilicate is used to settle out particles in the
system which should be removed during blowout.
It can also cause foaming.

Larger systems have a treatment tank followed by
a filter before the boiler. They also have deaerators.

Things to remember in a boiler system.
Carbon Dioxide and Oxygen in the system is bad.
Too high of an alkalinity means too much dissolved
calcium carbonate.
Feed water to the boiler should be deionized or demineralized
with the later being more common.
Additionally the feedwater should be deaerated.

Most of this is difficult for a home system but normal
maintenance for a commercial system.

RomanGK_26986764589

So, after running the boiler for a week with 1 steam master tablet I am flushing the boiler now again because it started misbehaving. I guess that tablet churned up more dirt inside the boiler that I did not get rid of during the previous flush. Water in a sight glass was still moving about 0.5 of an inch but it was doing so more violently. The 0-3 psi gauge needle was also shaking erratically and violently. Rads were heating along nicely.
However when the boiler started steaming the main vents were expelling air with force and hissing sound. They normally do not do that when the water is clean.

ChrisJ

I believe that's been the biggest issue guys have had, it needs clean water and like you said, it also tends to wash the boiler out.

Kind of like detergent motor oil.

zackwatt

I probably went three or so rounds of steamaster tabs with a complete flush and washout of my boiler each time. I also did quite a few all day skims. The installers didn't even install a skim port, so I had a lot of crap to get out...

ChrisJ

zackwatt said:

I probably went three or so rounds of steamaster tabs with a complete flush and washout of my boiler each time. I also did quite a few all day skims. The installers didn't even install a skim port, so I had a lot of crap to get out...

Did the Steamaster seem to wash oil out without a need for skimming off the top of the water?