Radiant panel 36' below grade

Tinman

This was a first for me. I was asked to look at 3 troublesome mod con boilers/systems in a gigantic, beautiful home in Highland Park, Illinois. Once I gathered all the information in the mechanical room in the 14' high basement, I ask if I can take a look at the floor coverings in the various areas. He says - Yep, lets go downstairs. I said aren't we downstairs already??? Nope, he says. He takes me down another series of stairs and there's a regulation size basketball court 22' below the basement!!! Flexicore ceiling and a parquet floor with radiant heat.

I've seen a number of b-ball courts in homes but I've never seen a hole dug this deep for a home. Not even anything close. I wasn't allowed to take pictures and he was reluctant to give me the name of the owner. Michael Jordan owns a home in Highland Park but I know for certain this one wasn't his.

Gordy

Interesting what are the issues?

Tinman

Where do I start?
8 year old boilers w high head loss HX, never been serviced/cleaned.
Leaking joints in flue pipes have eaten holes in everything below including the concrete floor.
Hollow core PVC used as flue pipe.
Low incoming gas pressure.
Near boiler piping a mess - 16 zones, no P/S, no buffer, pumping toward PONPC, terrible workmanship.
No condensate nuetralizers.
No ground wires in whips.
Air issues. See above.
Lockouts.

I'll be putting a quote together to get things cleaned up and serviced, fix the obvious problems, and make recommendations to make the whole thing "right", the way it should have been done from the start. It's up to the customer to decide how much he wants to do.

SWEI

I worked for clients like that back in the '80s. I mostly miss it, though there were some who had a tendency to get more than testy when things didn't go exactly their way.

Do right by them and you have the potential for some high dollar referrals.

Tinman

My experience, for the most part, is that any inconvenience is not acceptable.

Have you guys ever heard of or seen a foundation dug that deep? I did new construction for a long time and if there was ever anything over a 9' basement ceiling, it was very rare.

Tinman

I snuck a couple pictures but only in the boiler room. No privacy issues there. Basically, 3 different types of floor coverings yet a mixing valve for every zone. My preference would be to cut everything loose re-pipe the boilers completely but I don't think that's going to happen.

Gordy

Not unless you have money. Lots of money....... Curious of the lot. Flat slopes?. Is the whole foundation 36' deep, or some exposure? The foundation is extra special for sure. Let alone the excavation to build it.

Gordy

Funny, money for a deep foundation, and no money for a comfort system. Until it goes south..... Your potential gain though. If it pans out you will have to track down the hack to thank him for the work he provided, and never knew it.

SWEI

Are they willing to pay for a proper analysis? Gotta know the system temps required -- it may need multi-temp ODR.

Tinman

I didn't pay much attention to the grade or slopes because when I went into the home I had no idea what was in store. I did check the terminations afterward and didn't notice anything drastic in regard to the grade. The 36' dig, as I was told, was only in the area of the court.
I can say with 100% certainty that this owner could build 10 more homes like this right now. I can also say with almost 100% certainty that very little boiler room repairs will get the go ahead.
I hope I'm wrong.

Tinman

The builder still oversees the property and he told me they started pouring at 6:30am and didn't finish until 8:30pm. Also, unheard of in my experience.

SWEI

Builder could be a good guy to know for sure.

Tinman

Yeah. We hit it off really well. I showed him pics of our boiler rooms and he took me over to see another similar mess by the same heating contractor.

Harvey Ramer

I personally hate it when I can't talk to the owner.

I know you know your business. It probably wouldn't hurt to give him a good better best quote and include a couple papers describing the benefits and nuances of each quote. Might be your only chance to communicate with the owner.

Maybe he's a prepper that likes basketball... You never know.

Tinman

You're right Harvey. You become just a number if you can't meet the decision maker. I try to be very thorough in explaining the whys and hows of my proposals.

Gordy

If you showed the builder your work, and he then showed you another mess that is huge Stephen. You have a backer.

Tinman

Just under 2 years ago, I bid replacing this mess at this house. Again, I was not allowed to meet the homeowner. I was told my price was too high and a forced air contractor got the job.

Harvey Ramer

Ughh. Well hey, you probably wouldn't have wanted to work for him anyway if he's that kind of chap.

I just got a stern preaching too, today for making a boiler replacement quote to high. Chap looked up the boiler online and compared the online price to my contract price. He couldn't grasp the cost of replacing all the boiler trim and near boiler components and new oil line and tiger loop and everything else that's necessary. Oh and the fact that it's a monoflow system and i can't physically get anywhere near the majority of the convectors, (so it's a crap shoot to get all the air out), was completely lost on him.

I replaced that job with a better one. Let someone else deal with it.