peerless wbv-3 and aquastat settings after removing dhw coil

cableman

Hello all!
Over the summer i removed the dhw coil from my boiler after i installed a geosprings hphw tank. Its shut down right now which gave me some time to neaten up the wiring mess!
It has 2 zones, (zone valves and one circulator). The aquastat is a honeywell 8124a with high and low settings.
Can i pull the blue wire (which i believe maintains boiler temp for when the dhw coil was there) and just use the room thermastats to turn boiler on when theres a call for heat? I guess this would be considered a cold start?
Am i better off leaving blue wire and setting low dial on 120* with dif set on 10 or 20?
I have to mention im a big wood burner and boiler doesnt come on much, im only in this house 1 year and managed to only use 170gallons of oil and that was also with the coil for dhw!

STEVEusaPA

Ideally you don't want a cold start boiler. But there's no reason to maintain boiler temp on a boiler that rarely runs.
I wont recommend using a control differently than what it was intended, even though it's been done.
My recommendations are this:
1. Repipe the boiler. The air scoop isn't really doing anything piped like that.
a. Pipe in boiler protection so when you do fire up the boiler, it comes up to temperature quicker, and doesn't run very cold water thru the boiler. Avoid this condensing or you'll really foul up the boiler.
b. Can't tell from the pic if the piping in the front prevents the door from swinging open for cleaning.
2. Turn the low limit all the way down, unless you want to swap out the control.
3. Consider a low water cut-off

cableman

Ok, im new to this boiler stuff as my last house was gas hot air!
So, where is the air scoop? Is that the valve on top of the green cast iron piece just before circulator?
How should i plumb it and are you saying redo both output and return?
As far as the door goes, this boiler has 4 bolts no swing door so it does come off with out pipe being in way.
Am i better to start the boiler up for heating season and maintain temp with low setting on 120, then just shut it down for summer months?

Thanks for all your help and knowledge

cableman

I googled air scoop, so it looks like mines on the correct spot but the horizontal lenth is not at the min of 18"s correct? Would a spirovent correct this?
We leave thermastats on 62/63 and heat does come on during really cold nights, so it does cycle just wont be on during the day. With that said do i still need to pipe in boiler protection?
Im thinking ill plug that blue aquastat wire back in and setting low limit at 120 so boiler will atleast stay warm through winter for quicker heat when called for.

cableman

Is the c/w feed on the return side a problem?

STEVEusaPA

cableman said:

Is the c/w feed on the return side a problem?

No because you are pumping away from the expansion tank. If in the return it went feed-->circulator-->boiler-->expansion tank, then it could be a problem with the circulator dropping the pressure low enough to open the valve--in that case if you had a low water cut-off, you could just leave the feed closed after filling/purging.

Yes a spirovent would work better.

Boiler protection:
http://www.caleffi.com/sites/default/files/file/01223_na.pdf

cableman

Ok good so i dont have to move it now.
If i drain boiler just enough to change leaking pressure valve, once i fill it do i have to bleed zones again also?

This boiler is 18 years old i believe, looks good but im not sure how long its gonna last. If it does go, would the buderus g115 work with the setup i have now? I wouldn't want the outside reset bells and whistles.
Thanks again!

cableman

Where would you add this boiler protection valve on my set up? On return down low where black pipe is or up high on 1" copper? Also where would the bypass side go, before circ after circ or other?
Thanks

cableman

Back to an aquastat question.
Being that i removed the tankless coil, should i get a taco control panel and high level only style aquastat?
I turned boiler back on, set low to 120, dif to 10 and high was always on 180. Thermastats havnt called for heat so boiler seems to be holding temp 120ish. I havnt heard it kick back on but im sure it has.

Paul48

Look up the info on your aquastat. It serves as a minimal boiler protection by shutting the circ off with the lo-limit. Setting it at 120 will guaranty a sweating heat exchanger and exhaust pipe. What type of emitters? fin-tube? CI radiators?
https://customer.honeywell.com/resources/techlit/TechLitDocuments/60-0000s/60-2061.pdf

cableman

Fin-tube. Do any taco panels maintain boiler temp if no tankless coil/dhw is connected to boiler? Or thats all done by aquastat?

Paul48

Your aquastat does that, and can also ensure the circ shuts off to prevent water returning to the boiler, at a temp that will cause condensation. It's less of an issue with fin-tube, than it would be with CI rads, but it still helps.

cableman

Ok. Is it still gonna condensate with low at 120 and no call for heat to raise it to 180? I guess this boilers not any better being a cold start right?

Paul48

The lo-limit will still control the circ. Set it for 150 with a 10 degree differential. It will hold the circ out until the boiler temp reaches 150, and shut it off if the temp reaches 140. That temp should prevent condensation.

cableman

Ah ok so with it set at 120 the circ will cut out there and this is too low for the return temp.
Not to low for a boiler as long as its not receiving cold return water right?
I didnt know the circ was controlled by the aquastat!

Is there a better way for me to hook this up using a dif aquastat/taco panel or whatevers out there? I burn a wood insert and my heat doesnt come on during the day.

Paul48

I think your picture shows the blue wire pulled? And the boiler is operating as cold-start?

cableman

I plugged it back in so its been maintaining 130 and i guess coming back on at 110. I never tried it with blue wire discoed, was just off in that pic.
Here it is after i fixed up some chimney stuff

cableman

Am i better off picking up a taco zvc403 and new aquastat? Triple aquastats are only used in tankless coil installs right?
What would one do on a new install like this setup with no tankless coil or dhw running off boiler?

Paul48

Pull the blue wire, set the lo-limit to 150, and differential to 10. Turn up the thermostat, and verify the boiler fires. Also verify the circ waits until the temp gets to 150, and shuts off at 140. In the beginning of the call for heat, the circ may cycle on and off, and this is normal. Now you have a cold-start boiler with minimal boiler protection.

cableman

Sorry for all the questions.
Would the taco panel be doing the same thing as removing blue wire?
Whats a warm start temp considered?
If a taco zone valve panel was used what aquastat goes in boiler?

Paul48

I'm not a pro, just a DIYer. You'll have to wait for a pro to help you re-design things.

cableman

Didnt wanna start another thread for this question,
I havnt had a heat loss calc done but my house is 2000 sq' 2 story colonial with 2 zones fin/tube emitters. Dhw is seperate hphw. Ive done alot of air sealing and re-insulating.
This peerless wbv3 is using a riello 40 f5 with 75-60w nozzle, i feel this set up is way over sized with a doe of 100k.
Am i better off using a riello f3 burner in order to bring the btus down to the listed doe of 74k which is only achievable with the f3 burner?

STEVEusaPA

Well you should do the heat loss, instead of going on 'feel', but your 'feeling' is probably correct. With a Riello you would have to drop to a F3. Just make sure your stack temp doesn't drop too low

cableman

Ok thanks. I do have ss liner if that makes any bit of a difference.

EBEBRATT-Ed

If you pull the blue wire you may disable your safety controls.

Buy a relay with TT (HONEYWELL RA89A or whatever the new version is) and hook your thermostat to it. Wire the relay contacts of the new relay (NO #3 &4) to pull in TT on your existing control. Wire 120 volts to terminal #1 &2 on the new relay...done

cableman

Whats that relay do make it a cold start?
So far i have it set at 120* with dif at 20, right after it kicks off the temp gauge goes to 145*.
I observed a heat call and the boiler went to 185-190 then shut off and came back on at 170, it did this twice until thermastat was satisfied. Boiler rested just above 170* when stat was satisfied.

cableman

Would i benifit any at all swapping to a hydrastat 3250 plus? Happen to see one on cl for a good price!