Radiant ceilings?

keyote

Some of you may know Im renovating my way top down an old brooklyn townhouse, the top floors done in radiant floors, the basements got a slab i may chop up and repour lower with tubes or maybe panel rads?
But the second and first floor i have radiant floors planned in my heat loss with loopcad those floors are 12kbtuh and 16 kbtuh
Now I am wondering if i should rethink floors and do the ceilings instead. Here's why.

Siggys book seemed to me to be saying; why not works fine. counter intuitive but its radiant not convection right?

Watching the top floor tenants stuff their one bedrooms to the gills with ikea boy **** im wondering about controlling for floor covering. But ceilings never are cluttered

It was extremely difficult to route loops particularly the leaders in a way that nailing down the 3/4 hardwood was still possible and even then its stressful [imagine a nail on your last board] and of course I worry about wood damage from heat or a leak

any thoughts on general idea or tactics appreciated

Tinman

I'm a big fan and have done them a number of ways.

Check out Radiant Engineering's U-fin extruded plates.

Tinman

This is a job we did from '03-ish using u-fin.

Tinman

You have much greater flexibility in design...supply water temperatures being the biggest.

Beware the drywall crew!

Gordy

You get it. No obstructed output. You can actually achieve a higher btu SF than radiant floors by running higher SWT if need be. This is due to not having the foot comfort factor to worry about. More potential radiant surface to work with. The comfort while not giving you radiant floors is second to none.

You can actually use higher SWT to save on up front install costs, or which I like better tighter tube centers with low SWT.

Gordy

Also you never have to worry about ever changing floor coverings, and wood being so sensitive to the peak floor temp threshold.

keyote

Im guessing i could should use 3/8 tubing and tighter spacing which is lighter and more pliable as well. I wonder if i could design it so I didnt need hotter water but that might be tough with 3/8 tubes, other wize i guess i would return the 2 way zone valves for those floors and get three way?

Gordy

3/8" is fine. Mine is 3/8" copper 6" on center. Never see over 115 SWT at below design day. Mostly 105 ish RWT of low 90's high 80's.

However plates are deffinetly in that equation for pex, and drywall assembly.

keyote

the boiler can do a third temp and control mixers I wonder if i can more simply assign a higher temp curve to those valves without mixing. But why would higher swt be cheaper 3/8 tubing?

Tinman

@Gordy - Isn't the Multi Temperature Loop Control needed to run the control of the 3 SWT's through the boiler? It was on the WHN.

keyote

nice job steph have you ever use sheetrock sleepers and ridgid foam like in siggys book, theres a ceiling framing product the carpenter use a lot on the fancy ceiling called ridgid x its kind of like a beefed up grid like for acoustical but they screw rock to it

Tinman

I have not done it that way. Yet.

Gordy

keyote said:

the boiler can do a third temp and control mixers I wonder if i can more simply assign a higher temp curve to those valves without mixing. But why would higher swt be cheaper 3/8 tubing?

Up front costs on tubing, and plates through using wider centers.

Gordy

The MTLC is a seperate option. Don't confuse the smart control as having this feature. It is simply a plug and play box for seperate modules.

I really see no need to have to run multiple reset curves in your installation.

Gordy

keyote said:

nice job steph have you ever use sheetrock sleepers and ridgid foam like in siggys book, theres a ceiling framing product the carpenter use a lot on the fancy ceiling called ridgid x its kind of like a beefed up grid like for acoustical but they screw rock to it

However you choose to build your sandwich plate contact to the back of the drywall is a MUST to achieve potential output.

keyote

I know the mixer controller is an expensive option, probably better making it myself if needed. But i thought the boiler can have a third swt temp and curve even without it. or couldnt the dhw setting be tricked into doing it Only thought since you mentioned higher temps for ceilings it might be needed.
Probably playing with loop layouts could get the btu and be within the pump heads and at the same water temp

Tinman

I have not looked closely at your project/design but if you need another SWT, I would recommend the Taco iSeries mixing valve.

Tinman

Sorry Gordy. Didn't see your post of no need for more than one SWT.

Gordy

keyote said:

I know the mixer controller is an expensive option, probably better making it myself if needed. But i thought the boiler can have a third swt temp and curve even without it. or couldnt the dhw setting be tricked into doing it Only thought since you mentioned higher temps for ceilings it might be needed.
Probably playing with loop layouts could get the btu and be within the pump heads and at the same water temp

I should have never said what I did......

Keep your tubing density as such to exploit LOWER SWT which means lower RWT which means a mod/con is more efficient.

I was merrily sounding off on the benefits radiant ceilings can give.

keyote

I know we were all just thinking out loud.

Rich_49

Using Sunboards foam product on the ceiling is really nice . You can also use thinner drywall boards also since the surface above is solid . tubing is right in the installers face and visible . thinner rock means less resistance , graphite layer speeds heat transfer , no air spaces at all . They will make it in 3/8" for you and possibly on 6" centers .

Company is in Bohemia , not too far from you and the price is good if you know how to do math .

http://www.sunboardpanel.com/ressources/fichiers/f61c2ef1263d.pdf

http://www.sunboardpanel.com/ressources/fichiers/c4c687322a77.pdf

keyote

Thanks rich i think i read somewhere graphite was really good plate material, from there website its actually the best and the one they use on the foam and the cheapest product they have and no radio interference sold

Rich_49

There's a good reason why graphite is so widely utilized to move heat away from things .