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Megasteam Y

Tinman
Tinman Member Posts: 2,808
in Strictly Steam
Why does Burnham Megasteam's piping schematics show/spec a Y fitting at the Hartford loop instead of a tee?
Steve Minnich

Comments

  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,542
    edited September 2016
    That Wye is called a Gifford loop and is a newer design that is not sensitive to being below the water line, like the Hartford loop
    EDIT: I should say "Not sensitive to being above the water line" Sorry
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 16,231
    edited September 2016
    Fred said:

    That Wye is called a Gifford loop and is a newer design that is not sensitive to being below the water line, like the Hartford loop
    EDIT: I should say "Not sensitive to being above the water line" Sorry

    Eh?

    A Gifford loop is above the water line.

    Burnham shows a wye at the Hartford loop because it performs better than a tee, IF you can find one.

    Most of us cannot, so we go with a tee and a close nipple, or even better a street 90 into the tee.

    As far as I know, Burnham shows a Hartford loop.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Tinman
    Tinman Member Posts: 2,808
    Interesting.
    Steve Minnich
  • Danny Scully
    Danny Scully Member Posts: 1,437
    @ChrisJ is correct, the wye has nothing o do with a Gifford loop. A Gifford loop claims better stabilization of the waterline and can act as a false waterline in some cases. The wye is a nice touch though.
  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,542
    @ChrisJ :

    kick in (Figure 5).
    THE GIFFORD LOOP
    A
    Gifford Loop is like a Hartford
    Loop, except that the bottom of the in
    side of the close nipple is located above
    the boiler waterline rather than below
    it. (The waterline is defined by the
    level at which an automatic feeder
    would start feeding water.) What hap
    pens if we install a Gifford Loop? As we
    mentioned, in a Gifford Loop the bot
    tom of the close nipple is at least
    1⁄2 in. above the water level where the automatic water feeder starts feeding.
    Here's the entire article: https://heatinghelp.com/assets/Uploads/HPACGiffordLoop.pdf
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 16,231
    @Fred
    I know what a Gifford loop is.

    Burnham has a Hartford loop with a wye.


    fred.JPG 100.4K
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,542
    If that's Burnham's current layout, I guess it is still a Hartford Loop with a Wye. I thought their new drawings put the Wye above the water line, making it a Gifford loop.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 16,231
    Fred said:

    If that's Burnham's current layout, I guess it is still a Hartford Loop with a Wye. I thought their new drawings put the Wye above the water line, making it a Gifford loop.

    That's a negative.
    It does look like it at first, but then if you look over the NWL is marked really high up.



    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,542
    ChrisJ said:

    Fred said:

    If that's Burnham's current layout, I guess it is still a Hartford Loop with a Wye. I thought their new drawings put the Wye above the water line, making it a Gifford loop.

    That's a negative.
    It does look like it at first, but then if you look over the NWL is marked really high up.



    Agreed
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 17,314
    Burnham includes the wye in their MegaSteam piping kits.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
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    JUGHNE
  • AMservices
    AMservices Member Posts: 610
    I will be piping a Burnham mega steam in a couple of weeks, I plan on using their piping kit and the wye that comes with it.
    My question is should I go Gifford or Hartford?
    I'm all for change as long as it's for the better. If anyone can tell me a problem I might run into putting the water back in 2" above, rather than below the boilers low-water line, I'll probably stick with Hartford.
    But then again, I like what Gifford put at the very end of the article

    CONCLUSIONS
    The rock steady waterline achieved
    by a Gifford Loop thus has several
    benefits:
    • drier steam
    • elimination of boiler flooding
    • elimination of pumps in many cases
    • reduced risk of hammer when dimen-
    sion A is tight.
    Old habits die hard, and bad steam
    piping habits die hardest of all. Try a
    Gifford Loop on your next boiler in-
    stallation, and you’ll probably never
    put in a Hartford Loop again.

    I mean what's Gifford gut to gain? His name written at the back side of a steam boiler drawing.
    It's seems better and if we were to stay so close minded as to never try new things, I doubt we would have stopped putting circulators on the return.

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