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Full Renovation - Installing new oil fired boiler and indirect water heater

LadyEKent
LadyEKent Member Posts: 6
Hi All I'm new here,

So here is my deal,

We completely gutted a home and are renovating everything. It will be getting all new Anderson 400 series windows, all new spray foam insulation, will have 2 wood stoves, and we will be using flat panel wall radiators, the home is roughly 2500 sq ft.
I am doing my darnedest to keep from oversizing the boiler too much, yet every company I speak to wants me to put 100-120k btu worth of boiler into the house which I feel is excessive.

I don't intend on putting more than 45k worth of radiators into the house, I see no need for it. I told the most recent heating company that I would like to install the smallest of the Burnham MPO IQ series oil boilers, but they still came back saying that I need at least 100k of BTU. With the 45k worth of radiators and the indirect water heater (stainless, likely 40-50 gal, I think they suggested Super Stor), do i really need more than the MPO IQ 84? Or am I screwing myself with too little radiation? I appreciate any advice on this matter.

Comments

  • LadyEKent
    LadyEKent Member Posts: 6
    Yeah Ive been researching for over a month at this point and from what I can tell, you are right in me needing less than the IQ 84. I guess my real concern is if I need to add more radiation to keep up with that boiler or if it will be fine with just the 45k worth of radiations and indirect water heater.
  • LadyEKent
    LadyEKent Member Posts: 6
    For heatloss, is there an easy way to do a calculation? The home is in the Manchester NH USA area
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
    edited July 2016
    It all starts with a room-by-room heat loss. From that comes radiator sizing, pipe sizing, and boiler/controls decisions.

    If you are not planning on using TRVs, I would suggest putting the room(s) with the woodstoves on a separate zone (or zones.)

    There are a few smaller (70k) oil-fired boilers available from other makers. What are your oil and LPG prices like there?
  • GreenGene
    GreenGene Member Posts: 290
    If you're half decent with a computer you can use this, go to the info tab and pick the options that best match the house and temperatures, then go to the input and put in each room, all the windows and exterior doors for each room and eventually below your cool and heat load numbers will add up.

    You'll probably end in the 65-80k range.
    LadyEKent
  • LadyEKent
    LadyEKent Member Posts: 6
    edited July 2016
    GreenGene said:

    If you're half decent with a computer you can use this, go to the info tab and pick the options that best match the house and temperatures, then go to the input and put in each room, all the windows and exterior doors for each room and eventually below your cool and heat load numbers will add up.

    You'll probably end in the 65-80k range.


    when calculating the floor area/floor edge in this program, what exactly is the difference between the two


    NEVERMIND
  • LadyEKent
    LadyEKent Member Posts: 6
    SWEI said:

    It all starts with a room-by-room heat loss. From that comes radiator sizing, pipe sizing, and boiler/controls decisions.

    If you are not planning on using TRVs, I would suggest putting the room(s) with the woodstoves on a separate zone (or zones.)

    There are a few smaller (70k) oil-fired boilers available from other makers. What are your oil and LPG prices like there?

    I hadnt considered putting the room with wood stoves on a seperate zone, seeing as they are both on the first floor and with a mostly open floor plan (basically one large room with a bathroom and office), the first floor will have its own zone.

    Oil is 1.98 and Proprane is 2.52
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
    The idea is to shut off the heat to rooms as they are heated by the wood stove. If the heat makes its way into other rooms, the thermostat for those areas will shut down the boiler. TRVs will give you even finer-grained control over the system.

    At that price, keep the oil.
    LadyEKent
  • LadyEKent
    LadyEKent Member Posts: 6
    So basically if I can convince the husband to insulate the floor of the 1st floor/ceiling of basement, the btu heat loss will be less than 58k
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 9,750
    A concern I see is where does the make up air for the 2 wood stoves come from. With a house you hope will be as tight as you are paying for, there is not a lot of air infiltration for combustion air for the stoves that will move a lot of air up their chimneys.

    I know of a house spray foamed in the 70's that cannot use the fireplace (I know it is a big air mover...more so than a stove) and run the clothes dryer at the same time. Smoke down the chimney.

    You have to consider that a clothes dryer, bath and kitchen exhaust fans require a lot of air coming into the house. Sometimes it finds that air by pulling in down your chimneys.

    That 70's house always had oil burner sooting problems until a combustion air pipe was brought directly into the furnace cabinet from the well ventilated attic space.

    Your basement if unfinished may have enough combustion air for an oil burner boiler.......but 2 wood stoves upstairs.....it may be too tight. IMO
    SWEI
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
    Combustion air is a big deal. A barometric damper can work wonders for a woodstove.
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 9,750
    That damper could be for the basement/boiler space and if the basement area is fairly sealed from the upstairs wood stoves, they may not benefit from it.
    I have cut in a fairly large floor grill behind wood stoves to get air from the unfinished basement or crawl space.

    Some wood burners have combustion air provisions included....always a good idea. IMO
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
    I was thinking along the lines of a Field Controls MAS.

  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 9,750
    Is there ductwork in the house?
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,221
    You can go smaller with a Burnham LE series oil. They can also be down fired, with the proper baffles of course. They are high efficiency, as oil boilers go. They do need protection against condensation and the are more noisy than the mpo. They are a sweet little boiler though.


    Just make sure you have a spin on oil filter installed on a small boiler like that. It will save you a ton of grief.
  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 3,986
    edited July 2016
    I would look into QHT products. They have both 3 pass oil boilers and panel rads. The N. American stocking dealer in out of portsmouth and Bell Simons on Holt Ave in Manchester stocks them.
    I am in the Seacoast so its a bit out of my way...