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Need some ideas...

Steve MinnichSteve Minnich Posts: 2,124Member
We have to lift some radiators out of some really tight places - from behind church pews in a church balcony. They're heavy enough that they would normally require 2 guys at each end but one guy at each end is pushing it. I've removed church pews in the past to do this but these ones are really long so I'd rather not.

I was thinking that maybe the use of slings would make the job easier? Any thoughts?
Steve Minnich

Comments

  • SWEISWEI Posts: 7,356Member
    Web slings and an engine hoist?
  • ChrisJChrisJ Posts: 9,208Member
    edited June 2016
    I was thinking engine crane, that's what I use to remove, install and move my refrigerating machines.

    The problems going to be the legs. If they don't fit under the radiators you're pretty much screwed.

    For example, my crane is modified to extend the boom even further, and you can see it's general alignment with the wheels. It's probably only good for 250 pounds or so like this, and in it's stock form, it moves that hook back even further. Down lower, it will be more towards the front, but not more than a few inches from what I recall. It could work, as long as you can fit the legs under........



    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Steve MinnichSteve Minnich Posts: 2,124Member
    ChrisJ - No room for the legs.

    SWEI - I have chain hoists and slings/straps but nothing to hang the hoist from.

    I was able to lift one end off the ground 6-7" but it was clearly too heavy to get to a vertical position.

    I'm stumped. And even if I used a narrow flat cart to get it off the ground, it would still need to be lifted to make the turn to get above the pews and down the stairs.
    Steve Minnich
  • Steve MinnichSteve Minnich Posts: 2,124Member
    Maybe a web sling looped under the radiator length wise and then looped on to a 2" pipe above it. That way neither guy would have to squat. Just inch it down to the end of the aisle, holding the pipe, where 4 guys could then lift it?
    Steve Minnich
  • Danny ScullyDanny Scully Posts: 1,015Member
    The real question is...why are you removing them? :wink:
  • Steve MinnichSteve Minnich Posts: 2,124Member
    edited June 2016
    It's a job I've mentioned before on the Wall. We finally got the permit issued last week. A steam system has been removed. Literally hundreds of pipe patches throughout and a failed boiler. We're putting in a hot water system with 2 Lochinvar Fire Tubes, homerun manifold distribution piping with 1/2" PAP, and an indirect.

    4 of the radiators can't be converted so they have to come out. The others will be flushed and pressure tested before connecting to the new system.

    We're also installing two SpacePak systems for the Sanctuary (drop ceiling below for duct) and Mitsubishi mini-splits for the offices. It's a sweet job!
    Steve Minnich
  • warnowarno Posts: 229Member
    Probably too close to the floor but could you squeeze a low profile floor jack under it to get it up high enough and put some carts under the ends? Then roll it out?
  • Steve MinnichSteve Minnich Posts: 2,124Member
    Yes we have that option of getting a lever truck under it to pry it up but we only have 16" in width to work with and all of the carts I have are wider. I'm thinking about making a narrow heavy duty cart just for radiators.
    Steve Minnich
  • ChrisJChrisJ Posts: 9,208Member
    One has to wonder how messed up a steam system would have to be to make totally ripping it out and installing a hot water system easier?

    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Steve MinnichSteve Minnich Posts: 2,124Member
    All one has to do is look at the shape this system was in. It was really bad.

    Besides, it wasn't my call. The church council made the decision 2 years before I got involved. Of the 8 contractors involved in the bidding process, 6 were proposing forced air.

    With 10:1 turndowns, outdoor reset, 95% AFUE, staged and rotated boilers; this makes all the sense in the world to me.
    Steve Minnich
  • SWEISWEI Posts: 7,356Member
    Very messed up, but it does happen sometimes.
  • SWEISWEI Posts: 7,356Member
    If you can get your hands on an aluminum I-beam, they make lifting much easier than a pipe.
  • Steve MinnichSteve Minnich Posts: 2,124Member
    The church paid a demo company to have everything removed in the spring. They were done in one day and they were really good at what they did at a reasonable price.
    Steve Minnich
  • Danny ScullyDanny Scully Posts: 1,015Member
    edited June 2016
    @Stephen Minnich, you have to buy into the reality of steam! I would have argued my way out of getting that job before I converted it lol :smiley: I'm sure you'll do an awesome job!
  • ChrisJChrisJ Posts: 9,208Member

    The church paid a demo company to have everything removed in the spring. They were done in one day and they were really good at what they did at a reasonable price.

    Might be a stupid question but,
    How do you feel about them using a demo company?

    As in, do you find this often creates far more work for you that is unnecessary and wouldn't have been required otherwise had your company done the removal?
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Steve MinnichSteve Minnich Posts: 2,124Member
    @Danny Scully - I would not have turned this job down for anything. :smile: Great people, beautiful old church, and a great opportunity for us.

    I appreciate the die-hard, purist steam guys but I'm curious, who would turn down a job like this? And how would firing a 400K steam boiler be more efficient than what I've proposed?
    Steve Minnich
  • Steve MinnichSteve Minnich Posts: 2,124Member
    @ChrisJ - I had a guy working in the area who checked in a few times that day, making sure they didn't jam us up. It was worth the investment. They came in with 8 young bucks. I'm not a young buck anymore. I was more than ok with it.
    Steve Minnich
  • Danny ScullyDanny Scully Posts: 1,015Member
    @Stephen Minnich I was speaking comically. I'm sure you'll do a great job and have steered them in the right direction. In all honestly, though, I do whatever I can to prevent steam to forced hot water conversions. I can't speak for this job, as I wasn't there. But again, I'm sure you'll do an awesome job! Good luck with everything, post pics please!
  • Steve MinnichSteve Minnich Posts: 2,124Member
    My church for the next month, starting tomorrow, and that's who I was hanging with while the forced air contractors gave their PowerPoint presentations.

    When it was my turn, I just went in and talked to them.
    Steve Minnich
  • Paul48Paul48 Posts: 4,492Member
    @Stephen Minnich

    Can you get your hands on a small I-Beam? Build 2 box frames out of wood, and use a beam trolley?
  • Harvey RamerHarvey Ramer Posts: 2,157Member
    I would be happy to lend you my sky-hooks for a small fee.
    Ramer Mechanical
    ramermechanical.com
    To learn more about this professional, click here to visit their ad in Find A Contractor.
  • JUGHNEJUGHNE Posts: 4,981Member
    edited June 2016
    Do they have to come out in one piece? Push nipples or R-L nipples?

    Also, how old was the piping? Were there any contributing factors for piping failure?
  • Steve MinnichSteve Minnich Posts: 2,124Member
    I'm saving these and one is going to Hot Rod. I don't think these would come apart without destruction.
    Steve Minnich
  • JUGHNEJUGHNE Posts: 4,981Member
    I understand, I would move a pew.

    How about the piping age?
  • Steve MinnichSteve Minnich Posts: 2,124Member
    I don't know about the reasons for certain. As far as the steam boiler, I know there were leaks above the water line and flue gas condensation to boot.
    Steve Minnich
  • MikeGMikeG Posts: 150Member
    Would a pallet jack work for at least getting under it and lifting it to a more advantagous location? Not much help on going up or down steps. I've moved a fully loaded gun safe around while working in a room.
  • Steve MinnichSteve Minnich Posts: 2,124Member
    @JUGHNE - I think there's where I'm at now, moving a pew.
    Steve Minnich
  • lchmblchmb Posts: 2,848Member
    http://www.homedepot.com/p/Forearm-Forklift-9-4-ft-L-x-3-in-Moving-Straps-FF000012/202300612
    ever try something like these? I've used them to pull furnaces and boilers..
  • Steve MinnichSteve Minnich Posts: 2,124Member
    Thanks @lchmb - I had Tim pick up something similar from McMaster-Carr this morning. I think we're as prepared as we can be now.
    Steve Minnich
  • Danny ScullyDanny Scully Posts: 1,015Member
    Can I please have those rads?!
  • Mark EathertonMark Eatherton Posts: 5,841Member
    We used to use a local moving company to move/remove radiators. Insured and prepared, worth the investment. Never had a claim.

    How about standing the radiator on its end? At least until you get it to a clearer area.

    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • aircooled81aircooled81 Posts: 191Member
    You considered a gantry?

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