Toilet parts keep dying on me

ChrisJ

Steamhead said:

Hatterasguy said:

Ahh.........you're not supposed to pee in the tank...........

Right- find out who's taking those "upper-deckers"......

Steamhead

Schweeeeeet!

For those not familiar, that's "The Greaseman", one of the funniest radio personalities that's ever been. Not suitable for kids though.................

Paul48

Korky makes the flapper for a lot of the manufacturers.

JUGHNE

So did you bend the rod going to the float ball or was it that way?

I used to find older WC's with the rod bent for adjustment of water level and eventually the ball would rotate the rod upwards and the water level would then be too high causing running down the overflow tube. FWIW

ChrisJ

JUGHNE said:

So did you bend the rod going to the float ball or was it that way?

I used to find older WC's with the rod bent for adjustment of water level and eventually the ball would rotate the rod upwards and the water level would then be too high causing running down the overflow tube. FWIW

If you know if another way to adjust the height I'd be interested in learning.

As far as rotating, the rod has a locknut on it, it won't be rotating on it's own.

The only time I had water flowing down an overflow tube was from a cracked Fluidmaster fill valve.

Fred

@ChrisJ said:
If you know if another way to adjust the height I'd be interested in learning.
I use to bend the rod too, to adjust the water level and eventually the ball would rotate upwards. I found that by turning the ball further in or out on the threaded rod, you can adjust the water level without bending the rod.

ChrisJ

Fred said:

@ChrisJ said:
If you know if another way to adjust the height I'd be interested in learning.
I use to bend the rod too, to adjust the water level and eventually the ball would rotate upwards. I found that by turning the ball further in or out on the threaded rod, you can adjust the water level without bending the rod.

I can only guess this problem, and perhaps solution work with plastic components.

That copper float only screw on so far, and it tightens. We're talking only 1/2" or so.

The ballcock has a lock nut on the rod, the rod cannot spin once this nut is tight. You would likely end up breaking the brass linkage if you tried to turn that rod without first loosening the lock nut.

Perhaps that's the difference between a $60 ballcock and float set and a $10 one.

Fred

They all probably only have about a half inch of turn but you'd be surprised how much adjustment that 1/2" gives that float. In any case, it sounds like with the lock nut it's not an issue anyway. Bend away!

ChrisJ

Fred said:

They all probably only have about a half inch of turn but you'd be surprised how much adjustment that 1/2" gives that float. In any case, it sounds like with the lock nut it's not an issue anyway. Bend away!

Actually, I do have to wonder.
The rod is about level if not perfectly level at the off position.

What would even 5" do under those conditions? I'd have to think nothing, no?

Fred

@ChrisJ said: Actually, I do have to wonder.
The rod is about level if not perfectly level at the off position.

What would even 5" do under those conditions? I'd have to think nothing, no?
The more your turn that float out, in that 1/2" range, the quicker it makes contact with the water and starts to float, causing it to shut water off sooner. Turn it in and the water level rises higher before it makes contact with the float. I know it seems like that 1/2" isn't much but it gives you enough of an adjustment range to accommodate the needed adjustment, at least on my toilets.

ChrisJ

Fred said:

@ChrisJ said: Actually, I do have to wonder.
The rod is about level if not perfectly level at the off position.

What would even 5" do under those conditions? I'd have to think nothing, no?
The more your turn that float out, in that 1/2" range, the quicker it makes contact with the water and starts to float, causing it to shut water off sooner. Turn it in and the water level rises higher before it makes contact with the float. I know it seems like that 1/2" isn't much but it gives you enough of an adjustment range to accommodate the needed adjustment, at least on my toilets.

Yeah.
But if level is off, the distance of the float won't have any effect.

Now with the rod bent, yes, it will but I'd only end up with a loose float because it's a machined metal thread. It spins on very freely until the rod bottoms out.

It behaves nothing like a plastic float which doesn't have any actual threads in it until you screw the rod in. In fact, I'm not even sure if a plastic float "bottoms out" either. It may just be a bottomless hole.

Fred

That's probably why they have the lock nut on the other end. That will allow you to make adjustments at that end and then lock it down. In and case, it is working for you.

JUGHNE

There was always an adjustment screw on the short side of the pivot point. It was a vertical adjustment screw, sometimes with locknut. On the short side of the fulcrum little adjustment goes a long ways.
Used to be a tag hanging on the flush valve with instructions.

Years later I was always glad to replace these with the Fluidmaster.

ChrisJ

JUGHNE said:

There was always an adjustment screw on the short side of the pivot point. It was a vertical adjustment screw, sometimes with locknut. On the short side of the fulcrum little adjustment goes a long ways.
Used to be a tag hanging on the flush valve with instructions.

Years later I was always glad to replace these with the Fluidmaster.

Why is that?
What issues did you have with quality brass ballcocks? Perhaps there's something about them I don't realize, I'm always looking to learn.


We had an almost identical style ballcock in the house I grew up in and it was finally replaced when it was 38 years old. I highly doubt a Fluidmaster would live even a quarter that.

We actually had two, but one got replaced with a toilet because my dad redid the bathroom and there was something funky with the way the 1950s toilet sealed, I don't remember what the deal was. But my dad ultimately installed a modern setup instead. The other 5 gallon American Standard stayed because he never messed with the bathroom.


I'll give Fluidmaster kudos that they make a pretty amazing product for the cost, but they do fail and they often fail for pretty stupid reasons. I had one crack for no apparent reason and it wasted a good 4000+ gallons of water because I never heard it trickling down the overflow tube.

JUGHNE

I have never purchased a new brass ball cock for a replacement.
The new ones I speak of came standard in new WC's (some years ago).

The Fluidmasters were used to replace the ballcocks in the old 5 gallon flushers that you refer to above. Many years ago you could buy rebuild/repair parts for brass ball cocks. That would have been a lot of inventory parts.

The Fluidmasters would replace almost every ballcock. One item to stock....not a lot of shelf space needed.....pretty good price......adjustable to most heights of tanks.....had the leak indicator in that if the flapper was seeping the Fluidmaster would come on for 1 second with a noticeable audible sound telling you it was feeding. (The old ball float would seep water very quietly and not be noticed).

I never had a callback for one in 30 years. Even purchased a replace seat for the units......still have it after 20 years.

You mention a 38 year old WC......only your father and myself would ever convince she who must be obeyed that that toilet will still work OK. (Well, maybe you also )

But the next generation for the most part would throw out the WC rather than even clean it well. My theory was always that as long as the china was not cracked then a WC could be repaired.
There are some Duds out there. The early low flushers with a small water "landing site" would flush OK but left many "skid marks". for lack of water spot size.

ChrisJ

JUGHNE said:

I have never purchased a new brass ball cock for a replacement.
The new ones I speak of came standard in new WC's (some years ago).

The Fluidmasters were used to replace the ballcocks in the old 5 gallon flushers that you refer to above. Many years ago you could buy rebuild/repair parts for brass ball cocks. That would have been a lot of inventory parts.

The Fluidmasters would replace almost every ballcock. One item to stock....not a lot of shelf space needed.....pretty good price......adjustable to most heights of tanks.....had the leak indicator in that if the flapper was seeping the Fluidmaster would come on for 1 second with a noticeable audible sound telling you it was feeding. (The old ball float would seep water very quietly and not be noticed).

I never had a callback for one in 30 years. Even purchased a replace seat for the units......still have it after 20 years.

You mention a 38 year old WC......only your father and myself would ever convince she who must be obeyed that that toilet will still work OK. (Well, maybe you also )

But the next generation for the most part would throw out the WC rather than even clean it well. My theory was always that as long as the china was not cracked then a WC could be repaired.
There are some Duds out there. The early low flushers with a small water "landing site" would flush OK but left many "skid marks". for lack of water spot size.

I've had some issues with Fluidmasters and don't recall them ever giving an audible sound. Debris under that rubber seal causes it to seep and never make a sound. Also the one I had that was cracked never said a word. That said, they sure can hammer, which a brass ballcock never does, it can't.

I suppose a leaky flapper would cause an audible sound with the Fluidmaster, but that's about all.

JUGHNE

An advantage of them was the ease of cleaning/flushing the line by simply removing the top and running water thru it.

Never had hammering problem.....our pressure is only 30 to 50 PSI.

Just lift the flapper ever so slightly and you can hear the valve fill for just a second or so. Certainly hear it at night if all is quiet otherwise.

The crack.....well some things break sometime....sh.ft happens.

Gordy

Dig a pit in the back yard, and throw an enclosure over it done.

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

I have a great tool for replacing a ballcock without having to completely drain out the tank. You know, that little bit of water remaining at the bottom that you have to soak out with rags before you can remove the old one because if you don't - no matter how fast you are - there will be water on the floor.

I still carry the American Standard pistons with the leather packing for the old ballcocks, but I can't tell you when I last used one.

Chris: That audible sound comes when the flapper (not the disc washer in the ballcock) leaks water and the water level lowers and drops the ballcock float to a point that the valve opens and fills up the tank again. When I change out a ballcock, I've learned to always replace the flapper as well.

Used to always use Wolverine Brass ballcocks; they were expensive and I had problems with them and it was troublesome dealing with the float. Switching to a Fluidmaster made my job much easier and had fewer callbacks.

MikeL_2

Fluidmaster ballcocks work well in most applications, but, they will melt like a warm candle when exposed to high concentrations of chlorine - the manufacturer has a warning / disclaimer in their warrantee regarding chlorine overdose..........

Larry Weingarten

Well, maybe this is the final solution. http://www.biolet.com/store/

Yours, Larry

JUGHNE

Search for "2000 Flush Steamaster Tablets"

ChrisJ

JUGHNE said:

Search for "2000 Flush Steamaster Tablets"

ChrisJ

Well,

That's the end of the Konky, I ended up putting a Fluidmaster back.

The Konky's square shaped hook kept getting caught sideways on the flush handle rod causing it to hold the flapper open, multiple times over several days.

I also didn't like how the flapper often sat off to one side because of it's soft loops where the Fluidmaster has a rigid plastic frame.






When you need something to work 10, 20, 30 times a day every day 365 days a year without hanging up or causing issues almost just doesn't cut it.

For that matter, that square hook isn't even almost, it flat out stinks at least with my flush handle.

bob_46

Chris,how do you post photos that you take yourself ? I am using a Mac. Most of the visual or graphic stuff you post comes up fine but the photos of your toilet come up as large black rectangles. Once in a while other posters photos do the same thing. I have only experienced this on the Wall. You seem to have a lot of computer savvy and I thought you might be able to help me.

ChrisJ

bob said:

Chris,how do you post photos that you take yourself ? I am using a Mac. Most of the visual or graphic stuff you post comes up fine but the photos of your toilet come up as large black rectangles. Once in a while other posters photos do the same thing. I have only experienced this on the Wall. You seem to have a lot of computer savvy and I thought you might be able to help me.

Hi Bob,

I'm posting by dragging the photo into the message. Perhaps others are posting a link to a remote message? Mine are just common jpeg pictures.

bob_46

Chris, are you sure those are jpeg ? The meme you posted opens fine and photos you have posted in the past OK. The photos of your toilet when they open start to develop but the instant it's all there it changes to a big black rectangle. I posted some stuff under test and it all posts fine.