Insulating joints on mains and feeders to radiators

cdm

I have 1/2" insulation on approximately 65' of 2" mains. I still have 10 'Ts' and 8 Elbows that are uninsulated. Is it worth it to insulate these joints and the 24' of 1-1/4" pipe leading to the radiators?

thanks -cd mulford-

gerry gill

Yes, it is but 1/2'' insulation isn't going to do a very good job.

ChrisJ

I'd throw 1" insulation over the current 1/2" insulation before anything else.

cdm

Thanks - Hatterasguy, gerry gill, and Chrisj for your comments - I am going to have to rethink doing insulation on the elbows and radiator feeders.

-cd mulford-

snugglez

I can personally confirm that doing the fittings is the hard part--like literally 95% of the effort. I'm currently insulating my pipes with 1" and man, it's a drag. The worst part is places where there are multiple fittings close together, so you have to custom cut the jacketing for each so they properly fit.

Any links to really good videos or instructions with pictures would be GREATLY appreciated--thanks!

MikeSpeed6030

I question whether insulating mains is very important. Any heat loss from piping will wind up inside the house, right?

MikeSpeed6030

My house's basement is finished and heated, at least half of it is - but the other half, where my shop and the laundry is, winds up being heated by the exposed hot-water piping running along the basement joists. It's all good.

But most of the piping is in interior walls and in the floor of the second story. No sense to insulate those, and if I wanted to, I'd almost have to demolish the house to get access to the piping.

My 4,000 sq ft house uses less than $1000/yr in natural gas for space heating. To save, say, 2% = $20/yr. For a 5-yr payback period, I could afford to spend only $100. I'd probably shell out that much cash to NOT insulate my pipes.

I spend more for lawn care, and nearly as much for snow removal, than for heating fuel.

MikeSpeed6030

For DHW, I have a separate, stand-alone gas-fired water heater - pretty common in my area. There is an elapsed-time meter on the boiler's burner circuit, which provides the gas cubic feet used by the boiler. (I clocked the gas meter to get the boiler's gas usage per hour of burner run time.)

New England SteamWorks

I always use at least 1" insulation, and I also do all of the fittings. Once you get the hang of doing them it's not too bad, but it is still time consuming. Fittings don't have a lot of linear length, but they do have a lot of surface area. The Dead Men did them. Then there is my belief that if a thing is worth doing, -it's worth doing right. When I plan my near boiler piping I try pretty hard to do it with fitting insulation in mind to minimize having to cut any of the pieces when fittings are located too close to each other.

In almost all cases the original system was designed with insulated pipes. When that insulation gets removed the system suffers. I've seen some pretty dramatic improvements once the pipes are re-insulated. After these many observances I have concluded that if heat is desired in the basement it is better to insulate the pipes and pipe a hot water loop to heat the cellar.

New England SteamWorks

Here you go Snugglez

http://www.buyinsulationproducts.com/How_To_Install_PVC_Fitting_Covers.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjW9l92YIic&ab_channel=steve16412

gerry gill

You could also use high temp cement on the joints the way the old timers used asbestos cement. You can kind of follow the steps from these pictures.
http://www.gwgillplumbingandheating.com/webapp/p/604/compton-steam-boiler-with-insulation-on-pipes

Then wrap with cheesecloth (i like #50 cloth) and coat in childers mastic.

New England SteamWorks

Hatterasguy said:

You think your installation is giving what you paid for? Feel the insulation along the pipes where the fiberglass is properly packed and undisturbed. Note the temperature. Something near body temperature. You know there is heat in there but not much is getting to the outside shell. Now touch the PVC covers on the fittings. Well above body temperature. What does that tell you?

It would tell me that PVC insulation for fittings are not as efficient as fiberglass insulation for pipe. But just as 1" pipe insulation is way better than 1/2" pipe insulation, PVC fitting insulation is way better than no insulation. I have never observed "well above body temperature" on the PVC fittings. But let us stipulate it is accurate. "Well above body temperature" is still way better than too hot to touch.

Perhaps what you really mean is a cost vs benefit analysis when installed by a professional at the prevailing wage.

While time consuming, insulating fittings (or pipe for that matter) is a task most owners can and/or would tackle and for this reason I encourage them to do so. Most do. For the cost of the PVC fittings, -no brainer in my mind when DIY. But still the right thing to do if we do it.

moneypitfeeder

Hatterasguy said:

These PVC fittings with stuffed fiberglass are a waste of money and time. Don't be duped again.

Yep, I was duped by those, that's what my local supply house offered when I went in and asked for steam pipe insulation. And to boot, the pipe insulation lengths were definitely not 1" thick. Granted all of it has helped some, my basement is much cooler, but I paid a good bit for that, and there is still a large amount of heat loss. Also, the little bits of insulation they provide to "fit" those pvc covers are about 1/8-1/4 thick once installed and wrapped around the pipe, the ill-fitting pvc just makes them look more substantial, just junk imo.

New England SteamWorks

The "little bits" of insulation that come with the PVC fitting covers come in different thicknesses, just like the actual pipe insulation. A lot of supply houses only stock the 1/2" pipe insulation (cheapest) and the 1/2" PVC fittings to match. Just as 1/2" pipe insulation is a waste of time, so too are the 1/2" PVC fitting covers. 1" is the minimum in my opinion.

cdm

Thanks to all of you for your comments - Since I already have the 1/2" elbow and 'T' insulation and PVC covers, I might as well put them on. Certainly better than no insulation an it LOOKs good