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HydroniX Talk TONIGHT...

Mark Eatherton
Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,853
edited February 2016 in THE MAIN WALL
Join Us today at 7 PM Eastern Time to Discuss Control and Systems Configurations for Radiant Floor Cooling with Geothermal Heat Pumps

Guest: Al Wallace, owner of Environmental Energy Corp.

Show Description: Today we will discuss "Control and Systems Configurations for Radiant Floor Cooling with Geothermal Heat Pumps" with Al Wallace, owner of Environmental Energy Corp. from Colorado. Albert Wallace founded Energy Environmental Corporation (EEC) as a veteran-owned small business in 2006. Al's expertise lies in the integration of high performance systems for low energy buildings. These patent-pending solutions integrate geothermal, solar thermal, radiant in-floor hydronic heating and cooling with highly reliable simple-to-operate controls for superior comfort, indoor air quality, and energy efficiency. EEC has developed off-site manufacturing methods for integrated systems which provide showcase quality installations with the highest reliability and lowest first cost. EEC's design/build projects have won numerous regional and national awards and have been featured in national publications. EEC is one of two GeoPro Master Dealers in Colorado with WaterFurnace, the technology market leader for geothermal heat pumps and controls in the U.S.

Please join us at 7 :00 PM Eastern time for some great controls information, and general camaraderie.

Where: https://iapmo.webex.com/iapmo/onstage/g.php?MTID=e4d9027d1fc7b02628f530e7a6be958d6
Password: htxrpa

About Our Guest
Al was on the technical committee which created the 2015 Uniform Solar Energy & Hydronics Code, is on the City of Centennial's Building Code Board of Review, and serves on Uponor Corporation's North American Radiant Advisory Council.

Al Wallace consults worldwide and provides training seminars throughout the U.S. He trained at the Master Builder Gewerbe Akademie, Rottweil, Germany, and completed software modeling training with Vela Solaris in Winthur Switzerland, based on integrated systems developed by the University of Applied Sciences Rapperswil (HSR), Switzerland. EEC's radiant floor cooling controls are currently hosted on modular hardware manufactured by Beckhoff Automation in Germany. Al serves on the Board of Directors of the Timber Framer's Guild and is a contributor to their newsletter writing on sustainable design and systems. He served as the radiant floor cooling consultant for engineering the U.S. Army's Special Operations Forces Net Zero Energy Barracks at Fort Carson, Colorado in 2015.

Mr. Wallace holds a Bachelor of Science degree in Aeronautical Engineering from the U.S. Air Force Academy, a Master's degree in Business Administration from Golden Gate University in California, and dual Master's degrees in Architecture and Landscape Architecture with Certificates in Design/Build and Historic Preservation from the University of Colorado at Denver.

This is one sharp individual. If you are even thinking about doing radiant cooling, you should check this out. Put aside 1.5 hours and come get educated.

ME
It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.

Comments

  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,239
    Unfortunately, I missed most of it. I'll be viewing the webinar when it is posted.

    I'm still left with some questions on panel design. The Radiant Cooling manual I have is largely focused on commercial systems and embedded slabs. Charts don't show 8" tube spacing or surface temps for above floor panel systems. Panel manufactures have no data on cooling performance. I have all the info I need to calculate capacity from a mean surface temp. I need more data on what surface temps I can achieve "with a panel system" and water temps that are allowable, based on indoor climate conditions. Seems like there is a general lack of hard data for residential/light commercial applications.

    Unless I am looking in the wrong places?
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
    Great show. Still digesting.
    Rich_49
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,853
    @harveyramer I spoke to a gent from Messana named Dan McDunn. Once they join (soon) I will be having them on as a guest interviewee.

    in the mean time, I'd suggest you call him at Dan McDunn
    West Coast Sales Manager
    Messana Radiant Cooling
    (510) 710-1907
    [email protected]

    I think he might be able to help you with your situation. They have extensive experience with radiant panel cooling systems out of Europe and are offering their product here in the USA.

    Thanks for your membership, and thanks for attending. I will send a message out to our members once we have the recent program archived.

    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,239
    Thanks Mark. I'll give him a call
    Mark Eatherton
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,239
    Looks like I'm own my own. But I've been there so often it feels normal.
    Rich_49
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,853
    @Harvey Ramer

    Here is a link to the uploaded YouTube program.

    https://youtu.be/PoY-cG8VWGw

    Enjoy, and please feel free to continue the conversation.

    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,239
    Thanks Mark. What I was referring to in the previous post is the fact that nobody seems to have any data on the projected performance of floor panel cooling. It exists for embedded tubing but not panel systems. I'll move forward with a conservative approach and find out for myself. By my own calculations, I'll only be able to get about 5.35BTU/sf radiant floor cooling. That is well worth the effort though, since I'm staying with a 2 pipe system and it won't require any extra hardware. I may be able to tweak it and achieve greater capacity once I see the actual relative humidity levels the airhandlers are able to maintain. The airhandlers I chose have coils that are 6 rows deep and sport a sensible heat ratio of .642 at full blower speed. That's outstanding! If I can get the humidity levels down to the upper 30's or 40 ish, I can close to double the floor capacity.

    I feel like Daniel Boone exploring the wilderness.
    Mark Eatherton
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,853
    Any chance of being able to incorporate a DOAS into the system design?

    Radiant cooling is exactly like radiant heating in that we are affecting the MRT, and "comfort" is not directly tied to air temperatures. 76 in radiant cooling "feels like" 72 in convective cooling.

    As Al notes (and Uponor and everyone else with a cooling program) due to the low differential, the tubing MUST be 6" O.C. in order to get the fin effect to transfer BTU's adequately. Where these systems REALLY shine is in situations where one can intercept the incoming solar gains falling on floors. (all puns intended).

    Let me know if there is anything else we can help you with. We are hearing of some systems which were retrofitted using DOAS for incoming air, and radiant ceiling cooling panels on existing buildings, and they are seeing reductions in energy consumption as high as 70%, with the norm being around 40%, to say nothing of the HUGE increase in human comfort.

    Hydronics RULES!!!

    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.