Radiator Replacement Help

Ilkstmht

Hello,
I am replacing a cracked radiator and I am seeking assistance in determining the physical aspects of a steam radiator that will provide the equivalent heating performance of the cracked radiator. The crack is on the underside of the radiator.

A. My cracked radiator is (1) a single pipe (2) steam, however someone mentioned to me that it could be used for steam or hot water (3) contains 14 sections (4) measures 23 1/4 inches in height x 23 3/4 inches in length.
B. I am uncertain if this radiator is column type or a tube type.
C. The diameter of the threaded pipe (the section between the nut and the radiator, see image #2) measures approximately 1 3/4 inches and the distance from the bottom of the radiator leg (i.e. the floor) to the center point of the threaded pipe is approximately 2 1/2 inches. Is the entrance diameter for all radiators the same? Is the distance from the bottom of the radiator leg to the center point of the radiator the same for all radiators?

I have attached pictures of the cracked radiator for reference.
Thank you for your assistance.

Fred

That is a tube type radiator, 4 tubes across (front to back) 23" high, 2.50 EDR per section for a total of 35 EDR for the entire radiator.
The leg height, distance from leg to center point of radiator will vary depending on radiator brand/type.
You need to look for a steam radiator with a total EDR of about 35. It can be tube type or column type and depending on where it is installed it can be a different height. If under a window, the top of the radiator should stay under the window ledge. Elsewhere in the room, height is not an issue.
On a steam radiator of 35 EDR, the pipe connection is likely to be 1-1/4" and if you use a shut-off valve (doesn't look like you have one now) you will need to replace both the valve and the spud that screws into the radiator as they are a matched set.

Check out the "Buy, Sell, Barter" tab on the right side of this page. You may be lucky and find a good replacement in your area.

Ilkstmht

Fred,
I appreciate your assistance and thanks for the info, especially about the piping and spud. However there is a shut-off valve. If you take a look at the section of the piping that is dark brown the diameter of the piping just to the left of the bolt appears to be smaller than the diameter of the "spud" (?). Should I replace and simplify the entire length of piping from the shut-off valve to the spud with single continuous section of pipe as part of the matched set?

nicholas bonham-carter

Can you show us a picture of the valve to radiator face piping please?
It seems you may have a non standard arrangement.
I think I see from the radiator, a bushing, close nipple, union, spud, and finally valve.
You may therefore be able just to reuse the union to valve, with a new close nipple into the replacement radiator.--NBC

Fred

Ilkstmht said:

Fred,
I appreciate your assistance and thanks for the info, especially about the piping and spud. However there is a shut-off valve. If you take a look at the section of the piping that is dark brown the diameter of the piping just to the left of the bolt appears to be smaller than the diameter of the "spud" (?). Should I replace and simplify the entire length of piping from the shut-off valve to the spud with single continuous section of pipe as part of the matched set?

Actually, that arrangement doesn't even have a spud on the radiator, just a short nipple. If you hook the new radiator up the same way, it should work. Most radiators are plumbed directly to the shut-off valve, using a brass spud that comes with a new valve (that's the matched set).

Ilkstmht

Everyone, thanks for your help.

The darker vertical line that is centered in images 16 and 17 is the area that is leaking and appears to have been previously repaired. Images 18 and 20 are pictures of the valve to radiator piping. The piping arrangement was altered during a re-install of the radiator 3 yrs ago due to some water damage in the room.

Steamhead

Looks like a bad push nipple.

vaporvac

I think you can fix that, @Ilkstmht , if that's the case.

Paul48

May be an optical illusion, but it appears as though those sections are actually stepped. Not that it makes a difference. It's "broken", and that's all that matters.

Abracadabra

The vent needs to be turned so that's it's oriented vertically. Hole pointing to 12 o'clock position. It's at about 10 o'clock now.

Ilkstmht

Can the radiator be repaired? I read online to fix this problem requires, removing the threaded long screws at the top and bottom that hold the sections together, heating up the section/joint in question and using a pry bar to separate the joint. Then re-installing a new push nipple. Is this the general procedure?

Steamhead

Yes it can. I just re-opened our shop and we can now get to our stock of push nipples. Call us and let's set something up.

gliptitude

Ilkstmht said:

Can the radiator be repaired? I read online to fix this problem requires, removing the threaded long screws at the top and bottom that hold the sections together, heating up the section/joint in question and using a pry bar to separate the joint. Then re-installing a new push nipple. Is this the general procedure?

I recently broke down three radiators to eliminate cracked sections. There are a lot of pictures and some comments from more experienced folks than me in this thread:

http://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/156861/reconstructing-a-cracked-radiator#latest

I did not use heat in my prying process, but that sounds like a good idea, as that was certainly the most labor intensive part. My main tools for breaking down were a few wood wedges, various size wood boards, sledge hammer and some blocks to put under the radiator. (Plus whatever you use to remove the threaded bolts.)

If you are otherwise looking to replace the whole radiator i would definitely suggest attempting the repair first. It is within the ability of a motivated DIY'er and I think still much less labor than hauling a new radiator into the house.

If the problem is only a bad push nipple and you are trying to replace that without eliminating the cast section, I imagine it will be very tricky to get the old faulty push nipple out.

Steamhead

gliptitude said:

If the problem is only a bad push nipple and you are trying to replace that without eliminating the cast section, I imagine it will be very tricky to get the old faulty push nipple out.

Not for us...............

gliptitude

Steamhead said:

gliptitude said:

If the problem is only a bad push nipple and you are trying to replace that without eliminating the cast section, I imagine it will be very tricky to get the old faulty push nipple out.

Not for us...............

Well how about for the OP? Is he/she to bring the radiator to you? Or are you to travel to the site?

.. I guess if i was trying to do it myself i would make some partial cuts on the inside of the nipple with a saw zaw and then hit the exposed parts with a chisel, hoping to break it out in pieces without harming the cast. .. When i was removing the push nipples from mine my whole object was to salvage and re-use them, and the radiator section they were stuck in was garbage, so i guess it was a different story.

gliptitude

To clarify for Ilkstmht, the push nipples are not just laying in there waiting to fall out. After you remove the bolts the radiator is still going to be one big solid unit. And when you pry the joint loose you don't get to choose which section the push nipple decides to stay in. Maybe this is where heating stuff up helps, IDK.

.. Another note, with the leak being near the center of the radiator, you are going to have two really big and heavy and awkward chunks of radiator to work with if you only seperate that one joint. There's no legs on the middle sections so if you leave the radiator standing upright you will need blocks or something else to hold the middle up, level with the legged ends. It is difficult to move the pieces around without legs and, if your radiator sections are similar to mine, they won't actually sit flat on a block and will easily rock back and forth.

Ilkstmht

Everyone,
Thanks for your comments and assistance. I am going to explore getting the radiator repaired. This forum is excellent.

Paul48

I'd treat getting the push nipple out, in the same way you treat getting a spud out of a radiator. Depending on how bad it's rotted, you may be able to fold it in on itself with a c-clamp.

HEATON

Lots of good used rads available, new also but $$$$$, been repairing and replaceing CI rads for half a century." OLD master". My hearing is getting bad but sounds like some are calling me a different word, starts w/a B .