Gorton 2's passing water all over the floor

JUGHNE

I have a 2 pipe system with the dry returns draining into a wet return, the F&T's and rad traps had no air outlet.
I added 6 G-2's, 3 before a new F&T and 3 on the dry returns. I know this system has many other problems but the "dry" returns get flooded for a variety of reasons and these G-2 will pass a lot of water. I assumed that they would close whenever water got to them. I need them for air venting and also on the dry return to open to allow air in to let the condensate return thru a check valve (now new) into the discharge of a condensate pump (when not running) that does wet return from other sections of the building.

Out of a shipment of 10, one would not close when blowing into it upside down. The other 9 will pass water, (buckets full on the floor). Am i expecting too much of these floats or could that many be defective.
The operating pressure is set down to 2.5 max. from 6 (52.3 HP Kewanee)

Steamhead

If there is a lot of pressure in there, the vents sometimes leak. Do you know when they leak, i.e. when the condensate pump comes on maybe?

JUGHNE

I just changed the check valve that the dry return condensate has to flow thru to get to that wet return. The cond pump water would close the check while it is running and when it is off I believe the original installers figured the dry return flow would flow thru the check. But had no provisions for venting air or breaking vacuum as condensate tries to return. Maybe the 6 PSI helped get steam part way thru the system.
I get water out of the vents whenever the steam comes up, it seems to come to quickly for the run time. Today the steam was down for several hours. The cond pump does not run until the steam is up for a while. Vents flooded before cond pump started to cycle.
On the new F&T I will get some water out of the strainer blow down upstream of F&T as the steam approaches. Then when steam is to F&T and blow down passes clean steam I might get a large amount of water (not hot) from test port after F&T, some shots of black water so it is not passing thru the F&T.
This is a 3 story building with a lot of rads. I'm thinking there is a lot of trap failure, most are 1/2" TVL RT1-16K-15A (Tokyo Japan).
I wonder if some traps failed closed, condensate trapped in rads and somehow they open and drain down to dry return. TRV's on most rads are in various states of disrepair.
2 zone valves control steam flow, though given their age (1938??or 1974??) I doubt if they seal 100% tight enough to cause problems....then again?
The boiler has flooded above top of sight glass between cycles and drops during operation calling for LWCO filling. Broken union test passed OK.
Schoolhouse, I can only work in the rooms on Sat & Sun. Don't want to do much major in changes as tonight is -10, tomorrow maybe 5 degrees. I felt brave today changing the 1 1/2" check on 1938 piping.
Changing the H pattern F&T which was under water to in line F&T has eliminated the worst of the water hammer which was unbelievable. Figuring out most of the temp controls system has keep the heat without setback which had been all out of whack. The ladies are warm and happy now. Every young man's dream, but at a much younger age I had a different vision of how to accomplish that than I do now.

The whole building is destined for the wrecking ball in 2-3 years.
I may propose putting in orifices on supply valves.
This building would be a good training arena for steam students.

Fred

The Gortons use a bi-metal strip to close the vent. I would think if they fill with water, that bi'metal may be to cool to fully close??? I think the float is actually attached to the bottom of the bi-metal spring so as not to lose its center point so, if the bi-metal spring doesn't restrict, the float won't "float".

JUGHNE

So I go there this AM, was -8 over night. Zone A was shut, t-stat satisfied, the steam main and dry was full of cold water. Open Zone A and a lot of water hammer for hours. Would stop after several hours if I drained out end of main thru strainer blow down and then drain water out of dry return at trap discharge test port. It took 30 seconds to drain each, this is after several hours of operation.

1.....I initially thought the zone valves were old and passing steam but Zone A is a fairly new valve and may seal tight. When it closes could a vacuum form on the outlet side of the valve? There are 3 G-2 at the end of steam main A before the F&T, but if they don't open then that part of the system is sealed up tight.
The dry return for this has no air vent and drips into a wet return and shares that drip with part of Zone B (1) dry return. The remainder of Zone B (2) returns drop into the wet return that goes to the cond pump. Zone B-2 has little issue with hammer and cond return.

2......A and B-1 dry returns are teed together before a check valve, minimal pitch for either returns. Could there not be enough pressure applied to the check to allow draining into wet return?
It is as confusing as it sounds. Maybe pictures will help.

JUGHNE

Now some pictures hopefully.
The first one shows the tee connection & check valve for A and B-1 dry returns. The 1 1'2 goes across the boiler room and drops into the wet return after the cond pump discharge.
Then the drop at the cond pump connections.
The white drop pipe is marked with water level measurements: the center of the sight glass is 24" below the 90 ell above. The center of sight glass is 63" above the floor. The center of the Hartford loop is 56 1/2" above floor.
The 3" A zone valve above the tee.

The motor nameplate of cond pump.

A size 13 Red Wing on top of the cond pump.

3" Zone valve for B-1 and B-2 zone.

JUGHNE

I am thinking that if the 2 dry returns (A & B1) drop into the cond pump separately that would disengage them from each other. I believe the condensate is either flowing back and forth or the piping situation is such that the water won't drain into the wet return with only 24" of drop above water line.

But at first glance the cond pump looks fairly small for the job to handle all the condensate for the 52 HP boiler.

I finely found all the rooms and rads, am working on connected EDR for condensate sizing.

Steamhead

This sounds like the typical "zone valves turning the "A" dimension into a "B" dimension" problem.

Try piping a 1/2" bypass line around each zone valve. This will make sure there is enough steam pressure in those mains for the condensate to drain.