Advice Requested Re Steam Pipe Insulation

vaporvac

I was going to make a new thread for my results, but decided I'd sufficiently hijacked this one, so I might as well continue on as the background is already in place.

I still have to do my fittings and the very long runout to my upstairs solarium which is in my unconditioned garage, However, the difference already is AMAZING! Remember, I'm just doing the mains that run through my garage and small portion of basement (maybe 30 ft?), in addition to my extensive NBpiping, as the rest still has its original asbestos. These pipes were never insulated. OMG, the heat is getting to places it never did before and so QUICKLY!!!

I insulated the garage and basement first and there was a difference, but the main change was the NBPiping. Seriously folks, don't put this off. Not only are the run times shorter and delivery more far-reaching, but the rads themselves heat better, more evenly and all the way across even on the milder days we've been having. It's almost as if the venting has improved. The vacuum is also slightly deeper between cycles during the milder temps.

I did backtrack on the sizing. When I put up a few 1" pieces on my NBpiping, the pipes remained hot through the insulation. As this was only on my 3" risers, I figured it would be worse on my 4" header and connected mains. So I returned the 1" pipe and got 2". Again, the difference was SUBSTANTIAL. The pros and the standards are correct in MY case. While 1" is better than nothing and fully sufficient for most folks' 2" piping, those of us with larger pipes can really benefit from thicker insulation, especially on the NBPiping, if one can swing the price difference. I figured I'm only doing this once and the boiler runs once every hour. It was SO worth it.

Fred

Great summary Vaporvac. Thanks for the insight on what the added insulation means, especially on larger systems!

Abracadabra

Hatterasguy said:

On 4"

The heatloss is 44 BTU/hr/ft with 2"

The heatloss is 68 BTU/hr/ft with 1"


The 2" is more than 1.5X as good at the 1". At 24 BTU/hr savings and with 50 feet of pipe and with 1300 hr per year, you save 1.56M BTU/year!! About $16.00.

Anybody want to run the numbers on how many years it'll take for payback on 50' of 2" thick 4" pipe insulation vs. 50' or 1" thick?

Never mind.. I'll do it... using numbers from buyinsulation.com

1" thick 4" pipe 50' = $169.50
2" thick 4" pipe 50' = $353

Assuming shipping costs are the same.

11.46 years to achieve payback

Fred

Abracadabra said:

Hatterasguy said:

On 4"

The heatloss is 44 BTU/hr/ft with 2"

The heatloss is 68 BTU/hr/ft with 1"


The 2" is more than 1.5X as good at the 1". At 24 BTU/hr savings and with 50 feet of pipe and with 1300 hr per year, you save 1.56M BTU/year!! About $16.00.

Anybody want to run the numbers on how many years it'll take for payback on 50' of 2" thick 4" pipe insulation vs. 50' or 1" thick?

Never mind.. I'll do it... using numbers from buyinsulation.com

1" thick 4" pipe 50' = $169.50
2" thick 4" pipe 50' = $353

Assuming shipping costs are the same.

11.46 years to achieve payback

That's not bad considering it will likely be there and service the system for far longer than that.
EDIT: and that fuel costs are likely to increase, further reducing that Breakeven point.

vaporvac

Yes, that's true. We discussed it on p1 of this thread. That's why I initially bought the 1" for everything inside and never even considered anything larger. However, my insulation was bought locally MUCH cheaper. so my payback is less. In addition, part of the 50ft you're including is in an unconditioned garage. I think everyone agreed earlier in this post that 2" is better for such a space. I'm mainly referring to the NBPiping. If we only look at payback, it barely makes sense to insulate at all, but we know that's not the case.

The point of my post was to encourage all those that have yet to insulate their NBPiping to do so post haste! I also wanted to share my personal findings ie. that 1" felt like nothing on my 4" NBP and did very little when I ran my system, whereas 2" made them cool to the touch and brought it to life. I know what every rad feels like in my house and how quickly and fully they heat. It's a very noticeable difference that even visitors that share my quirky obsession have commented on.
It WAS more expensive, but the difference in the quality and delivery of heat made it worth it to Me with 4" x 150ft mains that partially run through an unconditioned space. Everyone else can do what they can best afford and most can get by with 1". That's working fine in my basement.

Fred

You took the input you got here and made a decision based on your own set of circumstances @vaporvac . That's called being smart and it clearly will payoff for you in fuel savings and comfort. I applaud you!

vaporvac

I also wanted to give a shout out to Kramig Insulation. They are a local Cincinnati company specializing in industrial insulation on a national level. They were SO nice and gave me very competitive pricing as I had worked with them prior. I picked up, but their shipping seems less than I had quoted online elsewhere. They said that anyone calling from HH.com and using my name (Just say I'm that nutty steam obsessed girl) would get a similar discount. Ask for Paul.

They also gave me a little tour of their operation. Jeez, insulation is big business. Most interesting for me were the custom boiler jackets they make right there on a industrial sewing machine. They said all the commercial companies have them on their boilers. Who knew? I think boiler insulation was discussed in a recent thread concerning efficiencies. I had read about it decreasing stand-by losses, but didn't realize it was widely used. Maybe it's only worth it on super large boilers, but it wouldn't be too difficult to DIY. In fact, someone did it years ago on a SmithG8, but I don't remember who.

BobC

When I had a G8 installed in 2012, I peeled off the top of the cabinet and insulated as far down the sides as i could reach with fiberglass bat and also the top.

The cabinet stays much cooler than it did with the little bit of fluff the cabinet had initially. I figured anything I could do to slow heat loss from the boiler was a good thing.

Bob

SWEI

What's the ROI on making something work that previously failed to do so?

Abracadabra

SWEI said:

What's the ROI on making something work that previously failed to do so?

Priceless!