Vent at Beginning of Steam Main???

MikeyP

Hi all. First time poster, long time lurker.

This board is ridiculously helpful and I have been able to really dial in my 1-pipe steam system. However, I have one question that I have not been able to find any information on. "We Got Steam Heat" was a life saver and also provided some great "office" reading...lol.

I have a Peerless 61 steam boiler, I'm guessing it is around 20 years old. There is only 1 riser being used out of the boiler, into a header, then up into the main. Here is my question, there is a main vent installed immediately at the beginning of the main. Is this a normal setup?

For my overall system, I have a 1 pipe that contains only 1 main that feeds 9 radiators throughout the house with a total EDR of 353. Total main length is approximately 70 feet before dropping into the return. I currently have 2 Gorton #2's at the end of the main about 15" prior to dropping into the wet return. I have my p-trol settings at the recommended levels from this site and have just swapped a new pigtail and added a 0-3 gauge. While running this gauge hovers around .1 - .2 lbs.

I can certainly upload photos of the near piping but just wanted to check on the validity of having a main vent so close to the beginning of the mains.

Thanks in advance for any input you people can offer.

Mike

Abracadabra

Doesn't make sense to have a vent at the beginning of the main. Pics would speak 1000 words.

JUGHNE

A third G-2 at the end of the main may be money better spent. How large of a tap is available at the end of the main where the vents are now?

MikeyP

I thought it was odd that they would place the vent there. I will add a pic after work. All of the near piping is copper but that is a story for a different day.....

I currently have the G-2s piped with 1/2", the opening is reduced from 3/4" so I have a few options if I need to go bigger. I have a G-1 laying around that I could add to the antler as well.

MikeyP

Attached are pictures of my system. The vent at the beginning of the main is just above and to the left of the equalizer directly above my boiler. I cannot tell exactly what kind it is but appears to be a Hoffman.

I know there isn't a Hartford Loop in the piping. Again, all copper I know but I inherited this when we bought the house.

MikeyP

Here is the vent that is at the beginning of the main. It is a Dole 1C?

ChrisJ

@MikeyP

Your boiler piping is completely wrong. This is far more concerning than the vent being in the wrong place, though it does explain why the vent is in the wrong place. Whoever installed the boiler had no business working on such a system.

KC_Jones

I seem to recall someone mentioning a while ago that a vent at that location was to help cover up bad piping. I can't give you a reason it would help with bad piping, but I know I read someone posting that before. And it sounds like you are very aware of the incorrect piping, the copper isn't the worst issue there. Also yes you don't have a hartford loop, but they way the return is piped (from what I can see) is in concept what a hartford loop is trying to do. I am guessing you might get some banging there though.

MikeyP

Haha, why am I not surprised.

Believe it or not I have it running somewhat efficiently compared to when I moved in!!

Thanks for the input. Can the vent be capped or is this an integral part of this mess?

Fred

That vent at the beginning of the Main is useless. If it still works, it would close almost immediately when steam hits it. I would take it off and put a plug in the hole. Others have already told you about the piping.

MikeyP

KC, yes it looks like all they needed to do was to drop the return a little bit prior to entering back into the equalizer but instead they went right in with a T.

I can provide more pictures if necessary because I would love some input on what is so wrong. I have read the install manual and outside of the missing Hartford Loop it didn't look too far off.

The header is above the minimum distance from the water line.

ChrisJ

MikeyP said:

KC, yes it looks like all they needed to do was to drop the return a little bit prior to entering back into the equalizer but instead they went right in with a T.

I can provide more pictures if necessary because I would love some input on what is so wrong. I have read the install manual and outside of the missing Hartford Loop it didn't look too far off.

The header is above the minimum distance from the water line.

What header?

MikeyP

The horizontal pipe above the gauges in this pic are what I perceived to be the header.

Fred

Nope, not a header. Just a pipe to carryover from the boiler tapping

MikeyP

Here is a shot of the top of the boiler with the riser and what I thought was the header

Fred

Nope, not a header. Just a pipe to carryover from the boiler tapping

MikeyP

Fred said:

Nope, not a header. Just a pipe to carryover from the boiler tapping

Oh boy. Thanks Fred

Abracadabra

How much does the waterline bounce while boiler is making steam?

MikeyP

Surprisingly not much. About 1/2" at most, real minor fluctuations.

Don_197

Just goes to show you......you can do everything right and have it not work......and you can do everything wrong and win the lottery. (but the VAST majority of us do NOT!) Kinda like raising kids no?

MikeyP

Haha, believe me I am usually not "lucky" at all.

In going back over the "We Got Steam Heat" I am now gathering that the header should be in line with the equalizer, of which mine is not even close. That is just what I can clearly identify.

Since it is now 15 and snowing here in sunny Buffalo I will definitely ride this out for the year. I will pull that vent and plug it and see what happens.

Thanks for the help everyone and any other input is certainly welcome.

Mike

Fred

If you can find a copy of the owner's manual, study it for the installation. If you don't have it, download a copy from the net. The header should be at least 24" above the boiler water line. Both risers out of the boiler shlod tie into the header, next to each other, at the end of the header, opposite the equalizer end. The mains (risers) should tie into the header, after the boiler risers and before the equalizer. Manual should give you the Minimun Header pipe size. (Note, I said minimum), one size larger is a good thing. A drop header is also the best wat to go but not required.

MikeyP

Thanks Fred. Last item on this. I just read the manual and for my model, 61-5, it states that only 1 riser is required. Again, is this just the minimum, would using both risers in any way effect the boiler's intended operation? I believe that model 61-6 requires both risers to be used.

Thanks again for all of your input.

Fred

Using both riser tapping is alway the optimum way to install a boiler. Depending on boiler size, one riser may suffice but the incremental cost of a second riser out of the boiler, in my opinion is well worth it, and yes, the manual is the "minimum acceptable configuration.