New valves for old steam

geokes

My old steam system looks something like pictured below.
I cleaned the return pipes and the boiler, insulated the pipes in the basement and now I think I should install new valves all over the the place. Just not sure about the sizing.
The pipes are 2"
So far I only replaced the leaking vent on the basement radiator with a #5 Maid-o-Mist.
What would be the proper sizes for V1 - V6?
Approximate sizing is fine, I could get the adjustable vent kits and experiment.
V3 looks like a misplaced main vent, do I have to move it?

KC_Jones

Is this a 1 pipe or 2 pipe system? Is the picture of that radiator typical of all the radiators in the house? If not could you take a couple pictures of some of the other radiators? If this is a true 2 pipe system there shouldn't be any vents on the radiators.

geokes

1 pipe, will post the pics in a few.

geokes

the first floor radiator is like the bedroom2 pictured, slightly bigger. The thermostat is in the living room (first floor)

nicholas bonham-carter

Is the flue pipe coming from the hot water heater mispitched?
It certainly looks as though the radiator pictured has 2 pipes.--NBC

ChrisJ

nicholas bonham-carter said:

Is the flue pipe coming from the hot water heater mispitched?
It certainly looks as though the radiator pictured has 2 pipes.--NBC

The water heater flue was the first thing I noticed.
That needs to be fixed ASAP in my opinion.

geokes

the basement radiator with the two pipes was probably an afterthought, its kind of on the return pipe.
The water heater and the boiler flue pipes are connected, not sure if its done right or not.

KC_Jones

Those are all surely one pipe, that first one you posted is "interesting". What is your main venting like? You need good main venting before you have any hope of balancing the radiators. As far as which size to use on the rads that is something you need to figure out based on your system. Have you looked into buying the venting book available in the store? It's 10 bucks (that goes to charity) and a short read. It is a huge help with getting the system balanced. I also agree with Chris and NBC above the flue venting is not correct. Not only the slope, but the way the 2 are joined together doesn't look right at all...appears to be something homemade.

geokes

The flue was done by a chimney company, the space is limited and awkward, I'll ask them about it on the next cleaning.
The only book I have is "We got steam heat!"
From what I'm learning from that book, I have no proper main venting. That looks like a 3/4 main vent is installed on the end of the baseboard in bedroom 1 (pic. named mainvent.jpg)
I would think the place for a real main vent would be there the funky basement radiator is. The vent on it is 1/8" #5.

KC_Jones

The main vents go on the mains in the basement NOT on radiators. You need to measure the length and size of the mains to determine the sizing. You really should start there, as I said balancing the radiators is almost impossible without the proper main venting. The rule of thumb around here is 1 Gorton #2 (or 3 Gortong #1 if space is tight) vent for every 20' of 2" (2 3/8" OD) pipe.

geokes

So would have to tap the main near the funky radiator to install a proper main?

KC_Jones

With what you show in your diagram, yes that would be the spot. On the horizontal main pipe. Have you looked around and found all the piping? Do you see any plugged tees or anything at the end of the mains? Possibly above that radiator? Also it appears you have another main running the other direction. How long is that piping? That should have some kind of vent as well.

geokes

I did look around the funky radiator, definitely no vent. The other main is very short (about 3 ft) and then it goes up two floors.
Whoever built this did not know about venting the mains and considered V3 in bedroom1 a main vent.
In the basement, the main ends in a T going up (not visible) and going down (return) visible to the left of the funky radiator.
Would it help if I taped the main about 5ft before it ends? (The most convenient lace to do it). Does the short main needs venting? Looks like originally V5 was considered its main vent.

KC_Jones

If the other main is that short You probably could get away with just rad vents on that side. As far as the other one 5 feet before the end is better than no vents at all, so if you think you can do it I would probably go for it. Typically don't want the main vents all the way at the end anyway.

Abracadabra

I wouldn't call the V3 vent a "main vent". That looks like an SVS3 which Watts calls a main vent only because it has a 1/2" or 3/4" connection. It vents a bit less than a gorton #5. System looks like it's been frankensteined with the variety of radiators installed.

What is your intention with replacing the radiator vents? Is system not currently balanced? It looks like your basement has been recently finished/remodeled. I'm guessing your main vents are now hidden. I would recommend that you box that basement radiator properly so heat comes out and away from the wall instead of rising up into the wall cavity and probably the ceiling.

geokes said:

In the basement, the main ends in a T going up (not visible) and going down (return) visible to the left of the funky radiator.

I'm guessing that's where your main vent is.

Abracadabra

Abracadabra said:

I wouldn't call the V3 vent a "main vent". That looks like an SVS3 which Watts calls a main vent only because it has a 1/2" or 3/4" connection. It vents a bit less than a gorton #5. System looks like it's been frankensteined with the variety of radiators installed.

What is your intention with replacing the radiator vents? Is system not currently balanced? It looks like your basement has been recently finished/remodeled. I'm guessing your main vents are now hidden. I would recommend that you box that basement radiator properly so heat comes out and away from the wall instead of rising up into the wall cavity and probably the ceiling.

geokes said:

In the basement, the main ends in a T going up (not visible) and going down (return) visible to the left of the funky radiator.

I'm guessing that's where your main vent is.

You'll need to vent the other short main properly as well. If this is a true parallel flow 1-pipe the end of that main drops into a return. Find the tee at the end of the main where it drops into a return and that's your main vent spot.