System 2000

dafy

I have a System 2000 was installed in 1996 but the installer went to the big plumbing resort in the sky. Since 2002 had no one that will fix or service it although have one man who is about a hour away who is willing to sell me parts. Any way my problem is that it won't fire when there is a call for both heat and domestic hot water. It works fine when there is a call for either one. I put a switch on the thermostat leads for the domestic hot water and now control that manually. The other thing I noticed is there is some air in the domestic hot water. Any ideas?

Roger

Because nearly all the components are industry standard, heating professionals should not have a problem servicing and tuning up your system. They should have combustion testing equipment which is required for properly tuning any burner.

In 1996, you probably have a Classic Energy Manager. That has hot water priority as a standard feature; this feature is also used to prevent condensing if there is a dual aquastat on the return.

On newer generations of the Energy Manager control, priority is optional.

If you wait for the hot water to be satisfied and then you have heat, it sounds like the system is working properly. If you have a plate heat exchanger for domestic hot water, a 40 gallon tank is usually done heating in 12 to 14 minutes, so you should not have too wait long. If it take much longer, your heat exchanger may need to be cleaned like a tankless coil, or there could be some other flow issue on the domestic or heating side.

If your hot water works with a "switch" instead of the tank thermostat, the thermostat probably needs to be replaced. It sounds like the switch disables the hot water call; perhaps the aquastat needs to be replaced as it is not calling properly. This is probably a Therm-O-Disc 59T.

"Air" in the domestic hot water could be related to the well or city water supply, or due to an anode rod in the tank "doing its job" as a sacrificial element to protect the tank; this is related to the domestic water system as the same condition would happen with an electric water heater, and not System 2000 specific. Dielectric isolation is another avenue to review.

Roger

Service Board and Service Board Mode

The Digital Energy Manager actually has a "service board" feature built in. First turn off the power, and then disconnect the red "R" temperature sensor wire. When power is restored, the 100F light will flash, and 20 seconds later, the control will enter "service board mode." The burner will run like a common "maintain temperature boiler" and each thermostat call will open the respective zone valve, allowing the burner and all hydronic system components to be serviced in the system without any knowledge of the control.

This should help any technician familiar with the specific burner and hydronics feel comfortable.

After diagnosis and service if required, return to normal operation by turning off the power and then reconnecting the red wire and then turning the power back on. If any safety devices are preventing burner operation, the cause must be resolved before restoring the system to safe operation.

This is called service board mode because it can be easily serviced, simulating our service board or "jumper board" operation.

Operation in service board makes the system run like many conventional boilers, but defeats the significant energy saving features controlled by the energy manager, so proper operation should be restored as soon as practical.

dafy

Thank you Roger for your thoughtful information! The switch is simply to prevent a call for domestic hot water at the same there is a call for heat-that is the only time the burner does not fire. I have a local oil company that is now selling and installing System 2000 but they will not be able to get here for at least a week. I had a bad experience with a plumber/heating guy(not a System 2000 Pro) years ago and hence decided I should be able to at least have some idea what is going on with System 2000. It is 19 years old (classic manager). Along the way I have replaced both expansion tanks, pressure relief valve, air relief valves, vent fan and have been tuning it up (vacuming) points,filter, pump screens etc myself. Its has been running like a top for the last several years. It is odd that the burner wont fire when there is a call for both domestic hot water and heat at the same time! Tom

Roger

You're welcome, Tom.
Thank you for your patience while resolving this issue with simultaneous calls for heat and hot water - that does sound odd. If it does turn out to be a Classic Manager related, there is core return credit toward the purchase of a replacement control - even after 19 years. Most of the components you mentioned are not System 2000 specific and I'm glad they were all resolved to your satisfaction. Please have your oil company technician call our tech support team at 800 323-2066 if there are any questions. It's great to hear you'll have a professional tune up with combustion testing equipment, that's something which is important for long reliable operation for all types of boilers.
Roger

billtwocase

i must add that with the digital managers, if you have a bad relay circuit board behind the manager, and I had a few, there is no service board or wire swapping that will allow the boiler to heat. This was a drawback I found over the classic manager. He may need to back flush the plate heat exchanger also. Need much more info. What lights are on, boiler temp? How iss puff switch wire in? Early ones were wired thru T-T, and had to be wired thru F-F for on and off issues. Take some pics, and post them

Kakashi

EKs are pretty idiot proof if you have a combustion kit and common sense. I am going to take a guess here, if you can't find someone around you Roger should be able to help you.

dafy

It was the burner transformer that was slowly failing. It was just concidence that there was a call for both heat and hot water and the burner wouldn't fire. Replaced transformer and every thing running fine until yesterday. Domestic hot water not hot. Heating side works fine. Suspect thermostat or water manager thingy. Will test thermostat and back flush water manager thingy.

dafy

Thermostat Ok! Back flushed plate heat exchanger-seems Ok!. Getting a lot of air in the domestic hot water lines. Water not heating up as it should. The heating side of the (hot water) seems to be ok. Any ideas?

dafy

I put another comment somewhere else! The problem is there is a lot of air in the domestic hot water side of the system and the domestic water is not heating up to the set temperature. Thusly the burner wants to keep running. What would cause the air to be in the system. Any ideas?

Kakashi

Air coming out of the faucet or do you hear it in the system?

dafy

No I only see or hear it on the domestic hot water side when it comes out of the faucet.

Roger

Thanks, Tom and all.

In general, when I hear about "air" on the domestic hot water side, it usually means the anode rods are "doing their job" as sacrificial elements. That means there is a water quality issue that is depleting the anode rod, or some type of ground loop that may also attack the rod. Otherwise, some types of water treatment can discharge air into the system (direct osmosis is one); this is especially true if the water treatment has not been maintained.

Anode rods are difficult to pull (breaker bar usually required), but if it is depleted, you'll know you are looking in the right direction.

In any case, there is nothing in the boiler system than can cause air to enter the domestic side, so it's best to check the site specific conditions.

The domestic 006 bronze circulator does have a check valve, so it can become air bound with air from a treatment system and cause domestic hot water heating issues.

Roger

dafy

I am sorry but I had to make a trip out of town so I did not get to reply immediately. The system 2000 does not have a water heater-it as a storage tank. The boiler heats up the water-sends it to a plate exchanger and the plate exchanger sends it to base board pipes and or a circulater pump which pumps it into the storage tank (which is actually a unelectified water heater with a aquastat -glued, jammed or tied on to the bare metal of the tank. The air coming out of the fixtures when you turn them is prounced! There are other devices within the system-2 bladder tanks-various pressure valves. I do not hear this in the baseboard pipes. I have a water heater within the system that I switched to- but eventally I will have to figure this out-I normally only use the waterheater in the summer.

dafy

Ps the circulater is a taco 1/40 hp cartridge type! I have no idea why it is in the system-my water heater has no circulater and due to cold water pressure forcing hot water through the domestic system-works fine!