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Oil Supply Configuration

hvacfreak2
hvacfreak2 Member Posts: 500
Thanks in advance for opinions on this ,

Currently this is a two pipe , top feed 3/8 tube that serves a boiler 4 feet away. I am converting this to 1 pipe and plan on staying with the top feed configuration. The supply tube has a Firomatic fitting at the base of the tube inside the tank , serving dual purpose as a check valve. Is there any problem doing this ? Does the Firomatic fitting being submerged in fuel meet the intent of any code that would require it ?

I will say that I have run out of fuel plenty of times and have never had to crack the bleeder on the pump to get it to pick up. I'm thinking that it has proven reliable and to leave it as is , would you ?
hvacfreak

Mechanical Enthusiast

Burnham MST 396 , 60 oz gauge , Tigerloop , Firomatic Check Valve , Mcdonnell Miller 67 lwco , Danfoss RA2k TRV's

Easyio FG20 Controller

Comments

  • Robert O'Brien
    Robert O'Brien Member Posts: 3,451

    Thanks in advance for opinions on this ,

    Currently this is a two pipe , top feed 3/8 tube that serves a boiler 4 feet away. I am converting this to 1 pipe and plan on staying with the top feed configuration. The supply tube has a Firomatic fitting at the base of the tube inside the tank , serving dual purpose as a check valve. Is there any problem doing this ? Does the Firomatic fitting being submerged in fuel meet the intent of any code that would require it ?

    I will say that I have run out of fuel plenty of times and have never had to crack the bleeder on the pump to get it to pick up. I'm thinking that it has proven reliable and to leave it as is , would you ?

    Reinventing the foot valve? On single pipe this is a syphon with no need for check valves. In fact, check valves are never needed at all on any oil supply system. The reason the pump picks up the prime when you run out of oil is the two pipe setup, not a check valve.
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  • hvacfreak2
    hvacfreak2 Member Posts: 500
    edited October 2015
    I understand regarding the 2 pipe purge , thanks.

    So , the firomatic valve in this position is really no better off than an open ended pipe ? I have lived with 1 pipe oil before but it was gravity from under the tank.

    I have installed maybe a dozen oil tanks years ago , mostly 1 pipe gravity for the supply piping. I seem to remember one install that was 2 pipe we installed a firomatic as a foot valve ( like I have now ) but it has been a long time.
    hvacfreak

    Mechanical Enthusiast

    Burnham MST 396 , 60 oz gauge , Tigerloop , Firomatic Check Valve , Mcdonnell Miller 67 lwco , Danfoss RA2k TRV's

    Easyio FG20 Controller

  • lchmb
    lchmb Member Posts: 2,997
    curious..how old is the tank? Using a top feed like this allow's all the nasty stuff to hang in the bottom of the tank which can lead to tank failure..
  • hvacfreak2
    hvacfreak2 Member Posts: 500
    I am going to guess 18 years old. And yes I just don't want to deal with the stuff in there right now ( and why I'm not converting to a bottom supply ). The good news is I have run out and dropped 10 gallons of fuel in there and just never missed a beat. I have not had any fuel problems at all ( knock on wood ). I dump a bottle of Hot in every once in a while ( I don't know if it does anything just habit from years ago ).
    hvacfreak

    Mechanical Enthusiast

    Burnham MST 396 , 60 oz gauge , Tigerloop , Firomatic Check Valve , Mcdonnell Miller 67 lwco , Danfoss RA2k TRV's

    Easyio FG20 Controller

  • billtwocase
    billtwocase Member Posts: 2,385
    I am confused here. Fireomatic is generally referred to as a fusible feed for fuel. It has no check inside
  • hvacfreak2
    hvacfreak2 Member Posts: 500
    http://www.beckettcorp.com/product2/productdetail.asp?detailid=58

    It's at the bottom , Firomatic check valve. I was mistaken when I mentioned that it was doing something other than intended.
    hvacfreak

    Mechanical Enthusiast

    Burnham MST 396 , 60 oz gauge , Tigerloop , Firomatic Check Valve , Mcdonnell Miller 67 lwco , Danfoss RA2k TRV's

    Easyio FG20 Controller

  • hvacfreak2
    hvacfreak2 Member Posts: 500
    My oil tank passed inspection today , bros !!!

    I cursed the drunkard who welded in the vent tapping into the tank many years ago. I apologized to this guy when I saw how bad the tapping was in the new vent alarm. Good grief man I hope those two guys found other lines of work. SMH.
    hvacfreak

    Mechanical Enthusiast

    Burnham MST 396 , 60 oz gauge , Tigerloop , Firomatic Check Valve , Mcdonnell Miller 67 lwco , Danfoss RA2k TRV's

    Easyio FG20 Controller

  • OuterCapeOilguy
    OuterCapeOilguy Member Posts: 30
    Get rid of the submerged Firomatic; you don't need a check valve. Install a deaerator (Tiger Loop or, better yet, Sid Harvey Smart-Flo™). The deaerator makes your system self-priming, yet the filter only filters the fuel actually being burned, not the 30 or so gph the pump is capable of pumping. The deaerator pipes to the pump as a two-pipe system (you have to install the bypass plug), but to the tank as a one pipe. To "ice the cake," install a spin-on filter or use a deaerator which incorporates a spin-on filter. Install a Firomatic at the tank, at the burner and just ahead of the filter.
  • hvacfreak2
    hvacfreak2 Member Posts: 500

    Get rid of the submerged Firomatic; you don't need a check valve. Install a deaerator (Tiger Loop or, better yet, Sid Harvey Smart-Flo™). The deaerator makes your system self-priming, yet the filter only filters the fuel actually being burned, not the 30 or so gph the pump is capable of pumping. The deaerator pipes to the pump as a two-pipe system (you have to install the bypass plug), but to the tank as a one pipe. To "ice the cake," install a spin-on filter or use a deaerator which incorporates a spin-on filter. Install a Firomatic at the tank, at the burner and just ahead of the filter.

    Thanks for the suggestions I am planning on a Tiger Loop but I will look at the SH unit.

    Question , is the Firomatic check valve even a safety valve or is it just a check branded Firomatic ? Will it hurt to have this thing on there ? It has been doing whatever it is or is not doing for a long time .
    hvacfreak

    Mechanical Enthusiast

    Burnham MST 396 , 60 oz gauge , Tigerloop , Firomatic Check Valve , Mcdonnell Miller 67 lwco , Danfoss RA2k TRV's

    Easyio FG20 Controller

  • hvacfreak2
    hvacfreak2 Member Posts: 500
    edited October 2015
    This is from the RW Beckett catalog for Tank Accessories. It is UL rated but for what I don't know ( that it stops reverse flow or that it closes off when heated ). Either way I don't believe it is taxing anything regarding pump performance. Mine is the 501 hcv ( silver cap ) in the Sid H. page.

    The Sid Harvey Smart Flo is a re-branded European deal ( model TOP-2 ) . I'm sure that it is a fine product , but I think that I may just go the popular route on this .

    I need to look at these ( fuel deaerators ) a little more , the plastic housing and all is kind of putting me on the fence with these. I'm thinking that I can get the same performance with a 2 pipe set up without the risk potential ( trade off being extra filter changes ). They do look cool and I am a fan of mechanical things going on , but the thought of waking up and finding that mess one morning , good grief. Edit : on the other hand it has to be more reliable than may of the half jacked old filter cans that have been the standard for many years.
    hvacfreak

    Mechanical Enthusiast

    Burnham MST 396 , 60 oz gauge , Tigerloop , Firomatic Check Valve , Mcdonnell Miller 67 lwco , Danfoss RA2k TRV's

    Easyio FG20 Controller

  • Bob Bona_4
    Bob Bona_4 Member Posts: 2,083
    edited October 2015
    Ditch the check. A properly designed and installed oil piping system does not need one. The plastic bubble on the TL is a lot tougher than you might think, to get it's UL approval. I avoid the Sids knock off. Get yourself a couple of Crown or Westwood 36" braided flex oil lines to complete the job.
  • hvacfreak2
    hvacfreak2 Member Posts: 500
    Thanks for the reply Bob , and for reminding me of the UL listing on the TL. And when I compare it to other components that are used in oil systems it's as solid as any of them.

    Nobody seems to like the idea of that check valve in the tank , man I thought I had found a friend that I didn't know I had when I removed that duplex bushing and found him on the end of that pipe. The bad news is that the tank is full now , lol... he may remain there for the time being I have bigger fish to fry.

    My 1 1/4 Ridgid 11 R die messed up on me yesterday , I had help standing idle , man it messed my day up. I have new teeth and a new locking cover I swapped from a 12 R and it still messed up. I stayed up late messing with it , I found 1 or 2 screw holes had some metal shaves in them which would have prevented them from tightening correctly. I'll find out when I get moving.
    hvacfreak

    Mechanical Enthusiast

    Burnham MST 396 , 60 oz gauge , Tigerloop , Firomatic Check Valve , Mcdonnell Miller 67 lwco , Danfoss RA2k TRV's

    Easyio FG20 Controller