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Does radiant heat closed loop system void my warranty?

Hello folks. Maybe this is a common topic so please excuse me if it is. I'm attempting to DIY install a hydronic radiant heating system for central heat with a Westinghouse/HTP boiler and recommended panel from Menards. I don't want to connect to our domestic water because, while technically potable, it is nasty and I believe will harm this system in short order and we also don't want to install a water treatment system. I believe it can be set up as a closed system but the manual for this boiler lists these warranty exclusions, "failures caused by operating the appliance when it is not supplied with potable water, free to circulate at all times", and "failure to operate the appliance in an open system with a properly sized and installed thermal expansion tank". These sound to me, particularly the latter, that they would pretty much void the warranty?

Comments

  • Docfletcher
    Docfletcher Member Posts: 483
    It may help if you let the guys know which HTP boiler you have?
    JUGHNE
  • Bob Bona_4
    Bob Bona_4 Member Posts: 2,083
    That sounds like tortured English, I'm interpretating it to mean the boiler must have water in it to run otherwise warranty is void?
    Gordy
  • FranklinD
    FranklinD Member Posts: 399
    I looked at these units at Menards where I live, just out of curiousity. I also think that the manual has been translated once or twice.

    What I get out of it is this...

    1) No warranty if the unit is operated in a system where no flow exists, for any reason, or without water in the system as required. Possibly also means that it has to be connected to a make up water source that is always turned on.

    2) No warranty if the unit is operated in a system without an expansion tank 'open' in the piping.

    If they actually mean that you can't use the unit in anything BUT an 'open' heating system (as commonly referred to here) then it's just an on-demand domestic water heater and therefore useless as a real boiler. I know I would never run an open heating/dhw system.

    Anyway, I'm thinking it's saying 'if you wreck the boiler because it ran without water or burst under pressure from the lack of an expansion tank, no warranty for you'.
    Ford Master Technician, "Tinkerer of Terror"
    Police & Fire Equipment Lead Mechanic, NW WI
    Lover of Old Homes & Gravity Hot Water Systems
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,537
    edited September 2015
    To answer your question no closed loop radiant will not void the warranty when installed per I/O manual.

    It should be noted all closed loop radiant systems need protection devices properly located in the system.
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,537
    Should also note warranty issues will be a headache. A friend did his own radiant for a detached garage. Used another menards brand boiler with all the menards fixins. 2 years of factory reps trying to figure out the issue until he finally got a new boiler.
  • Rich_49
    Rich_49 Member Posts: 2,703
    This is in fact a combi boiler . Should not be used as a space heating appliance only is basically what the warranty states . therein lies the reference to open loop .

    Gordy ,
    Which unit might that have been ? Was it a re branded HTP or someone else's OEM stuff ? I do find that some problems exist in the midwest that don't in other regions . That is another discussion . Thank God for Emerson Swan stepping up to the plate at present to assist me with an issue which the local rep tried to sidestep because it was shipped into his area , purchased from a national wholesaler and shipped into his territory by same . Reps are a problem . If you ever have another issue , contact me , I have the head guy for Westinghouse / HTP stuffs number (cell) .
    You didn't get what you didn't pay for and it will never be what you thought it would .
    Langans Plumbing & Heating LLC
    732-751-1560
    Serving most of New Jersey, Eastern Pa .
    Consultation, Design & Installation anywhere
    Rich McGrath 732-581-3833
  • oooeee1
    oooeee1 Member Posts: 2
    Thank you everyone and Gordy, that is the boiler I'm talking about. It is a combi unit but the dhw feature is supposedly considered optional but Rich is saying if I only use it for central heat that may void the warranty?
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,537
    Rich here in northern Illinois Menards markets the westing house combi boiler as of last year they carried it. It's advertised as a boiler with optional DHW capability for radiant heating. 5-1 turndown etc.etc. the only think you don't know is type of HX as far as the shelf display which is an empty housing. Let's face it the warranty may be jibberish for a reason.
  • Rich_49
    Rich_49 Member Posts: 2,703
    I get all that . However , when a manufacturer sells a unit to another entity that unit becomes theirs . Proof of this can be seen on page 10 of the document you posted and this one . The very last line on page 10 substitutes HTP with Westinghouse .

    http://www.htproducts.com/literature/lp-520.pdf

    Is the warranty really jibberish ? Sounds pretty damn clear to me in it's language . There would be a problem with Menards advertising it as other than a combi . A combi is a combi and should be used as such .

    To the Op . If you wish to use that unit for only space heating , do so at your own peril . If you like that unit and wish to use it because of the HX or other reasons I suggest you purchase an EFT of the proper size or the new UFT . Not sure of their availability through Menards .
    You didn't get what you didn't pay for and it will never be what you thought it would .
    Langans Plumbing & Heating LLC
    732-751-1560
    Serving most of New Jersey, Eastern Pa .
    Consultation, Design & Installation anywhere
    Rich McGrath 732-581-3833
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,537
    edited September 2015
    I meant the advertising Rich with DHW as optional. That is the only unit offered.
  • Rich_49
    Rich_49 Member Posts: 2,703
    Agreed , definitely a marketing issue . In my opinion this is a Menards problem for not listing the proper unit for the right purpose and possibly adding language that does not agree with what HTP and Westinghouse state . The EFT however is available through Westinghouse although Menards may not promote or carry it . Could we agree that this is a case of "Caveat Emptor" , this language used by Houseneeds also is disturbing . They are plainly labeled conmbis by both Westinghouse and HTP yet are being sold using alternative language that steers the buyer to purchase and install the wrong thing for the intended purpose . That's why alot of OEM programs suck
    You didn't get what you didn't pay for and it will never be what you thought it would .
    Langans Plumbing & Heating LLC
    732-751-1560
    Serving most of New Jersey, Eastern Pa .
    Consultation, Design & Installation anywhere
    Rich McGrath 732-581-3833
    Gordy
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 18,209
    why not just hook up the DHW side also. Even if you have water heater, feed cold to the Westinghouse first, and on to the tank. Who would know or care as far as warranty.

    Ever see a box store check any return or failed product?
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    Tim PotterRobG
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,537
    edited September 2015
    Most times big boxes wash their hands of appliances then it's the owner, and manufactor. It's not like you rip it out if there is issues, and put it back in the box a year later to return it. That's a no go. Exactly what a friend of mine went through with his hydro smart. From menards.
  • Rich_49
    Rich_49 Member Posts: 2,703
    What happened to the hydra Smart water heater Gordy ?
    You didn't get what you didn't pay for and it will never be what you thought it would .
    Langans Plumbing & Heating LLC
    732-751-1560
    Serving most of New Jersey, Eastern Pa .
    Consultation, Design & Installation anywhere
    Rich McGrath 732-581-3833
  • FranklinD
    FranklinD Member Posts: 399
    The display at my Menards specifically says it can be used for central heating only OR central heating and dhw, and it was on a product info sheet provided by 'Westinghouse'. If I was Mr. General Consumer that's what I'd be going by.

    Their website lists it as an all-copper heat exchanger. When we were boiler shopping I looked at them and did some research, but came to the conclusion that, as with so many other things in life, you get what you pay for. The Westinghouse units are 1/3 the price of a comparable-sized Triangle Tube or WM Eco. I can only assume there's a reason for that.
    Ford Master Technician, "Tinkerer of Terror"
    Police & Fire Equipment Lead Mechanic, NW WI
    Lover of Old Homes & Gravity Hot Water Systems
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,537
    Rich said:

    What happened to the hydra Smart water heater Gordy ?

    Gas train/Control board /New control board sent defective. Bottom line it was so drawn out two seasons of lock outs, inconsistant operation my friend went off on support. They just sent him a new boiler told him to keep the old one LOL. I was not directly involved, and did not recommend he get the menards package deals, but the wallet thinks for people most of the time. Bottom line incompetent field support could not resolve the issue of an out of the box problem in a timely matter.

    Everything was installed correctly, and he actually did a hell of a job on the system installation For a DIY. Just the boiler was a gremlin, or at least issues could not be resolved.