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New gas boiler pipping help

Ssga
Ssga Member Posts: 4
After reading the forum I realize the pipping for my newly installed gas boiler may not be correct. Can anyone take a quick look at the picture below to see if the pipping were done correctly? I have a lower basement but not sure if that contribute to some of the problem.

Thanks

Comments

  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,228
    If you look in the installation manual you will find a piping diagram, that diagram is the minimum acceptable piping. If the boiler is not piped like the diagram it's not going to work right.

    Ask the installer why the boiler was not piped per the manual.

    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
  • Abracadabra
    Abracadabra Member Posts: 1,948
    Looks like the "vertical header" option ;)
  • Paul48
    Paul48 Member Posts: 4,470
    Pheeew.........They managed to get all them there pipes cornected. They are all wrong, unfortunately. The rules for near-boiler piping are not subject to the contractors interpretation. The skill is making proper near-boiler piping work with the system.
  • vaporvac
    vaporvac Member Posts: 1,520
    At least it's black pipe. Seriously, with all that paper work on the top of the boiler, one would hope it included the I&O manual.It's really sad. Please get your installer to redo this... I'm having a hard time deciphering exactly what he/she did.
    Two-pipe Trane vaporvacuum system; 1466 edr
    Twinned, staged Slantfin TR50s piped into 4" header with Riello G400 burners; 240K lead, 200K lag Btus. Controlled by Taco Relay and Honeywell RTH6580WF
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,974
    No Good.

    Would've helped if they opened the manual.


    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Ssga
    Ssga Member Posts: 4
    Can someone please tell me what is wrong with it so I can explain to the contractor what to redone.
  • Paul48
    Paul48 Member Posts: 4,470
    edited August 2015
    It must be piped to manufacturers specification, and according to the manual. Beyond that, it requires knowledge of how to properly connect each main (individually) to the header.Here is a generic description of proper near-boiler piping. It shows one system riser. It would feed one main. In your case, if there's 3 mains, there should be 3 system risers. http://www.comfort-calc.net/steam_Piping.html
  • vaporvac
    vaporvac Member Posts: 1,520
    edited August 2015
    I'm sorry @Ssga . I don't think anyone is trying to be glib which is how it may have appeared to you. it's just that besides the fact that it is done in iron pipe, everything else looks wrong. I can't even figure out what's going where. It needs taking back to the boiler and started from there. What boiler is this, btw?
    The above link is a very good diagram. Here is also a video from the Systems Help section of the Main Site that shows the why's and wherefore's of correct piping.
    https://heatinghelp.com/systems-help-center/near-boiler-piping-video/

    If this heats at all it will cost plenty for fuel and I'm sure be extremely noisy.Steam is forgiving, but the newer boilers with their lower water content require exacting piping. The I&O specs are generally considered minimum. Come back and ask more questions after you've read through the link and watched the video.
    Two-pipe Trane vaporvacuum system; 1466 edr
    Twinned, staged Slantfin TR50s piped into 4" header with Riello G400 burners; 240K lead, 200K lag Btus. Controlled by Taco Relay and Honeywell RTH6580WF
  • Ssga
    Ssga Member Posts: 4
    Boiler brand is Burnham and the series boiler model is PIN4SNI-ME2.
  • j a_2
    j a_2 Member Posts: 1,796
    Honestly, if he can't do it right the first time, one would believe he can't DO IT....The pics don't do it any justice...I am sure its hard for you to explain it to him,because that's why you hired him...not your thing. We can't give you much more than you already got here...Do not wait and see, because this boiler will not work close to correctly. It may run and produce a flame,but after that, not much good will happen...
    ..
    Rich_49Canucker
  • RobG
    RobG Member Posts: 1,850
    It looks like he just tried to "connect all the pipes". The installation instructions were not even moderately followed if even looked at. I feel bad for you as it will be a headache to get resolved. It looks like he painted the pipes to make the job look professional knowing that you knew less than he did about steam piping (which he obviously knew little about) collecting his check and ran. It puts a bad name on our profession when hacks like him rob people. I wish you had come here prior to getting the work done.
    Where are you located? There may be someone nearby who can help you get that mess straightened out if you can't get your contractor back to fix it.
  • nicholas bonham-carter
    nicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 8,510
    If you have any further posting about this to do, then use the strictly steam forum, so your question is more visible.--NBC
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,974
    edited August 2015
    Your piping should resemble this.





    Or with a single riser (cheaper but still acceptable)




    Here's what most consider the best way to pipe them, with a drop header.






    If there are multiple mains pulling from the boiler, each one needs to be connected directly to the horizontal header. I only mention this because it's not shown in the diagrams.




    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Ssga
    Ssga Member Posts: 4
    Thank you everyone. The explanation really helps.
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 4,827
    Here is the page from the manual for your boiler showing what it should look like. It appears you have 3 mains, those mains should be connected to the TOP of the header individually, not joined together with a single connection to the header (on the side) like yours is done. In addition your return pipes are connected in the same manner. Those return pipes should really be brought down below the water line in the boiler individually and then joined together. The header appears to be too low as well. Chris posted while I was putting this together, but I will put it up anyway. More info is never a bad thing.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
  • vaporvac
    vaporvac Member Posts: 1,520
    And while a single riser is acceptable, it must be the correct diameter and not throttled down.
    Two-pipe Trane vaporvacuum system; 1466 edr
    Twinned, staged Slantfin TR50s piped into 4" header with Riello G400 burners; 240K lead, 200K lag Btus. Controlled by Taco Relay and Honeywell RTH6580WF
  • Steamowner
    Steamowner Member Posts: 19
    Ssga said:

    Boiler brand is Burnham and the series boiler model is PIN4SNI-ME2.

    That is the same exact model my contractor is planning to install. Is the manual accessible somewhere on the web? I googled it but didn't easily find it.
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 4,827
    Go here, it's the one that says Independence I&O.
    https://file.ac/9IIdhbTJLLQ/
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
  • vaporvac
    vaporvac Member Posts: 1,520
    Have you checked the Burnham website. They're usually posted there.
    Two-pipe Trane vaporvacuum system; 1466 edr
    Twinned, staged Slantfin TR50s piped into 4" header with Riello G400 burners; 240K lead, 200K lag Btus. Controlled by Taco Relay and Honeywell RTH6580WF
  • Steamowner
    Steamowner Member Posts: 19
    Thanks! I'll read through this tonight.
    How much difference is there in performance between the three ways of piping mentioned above? I'm guessing my quote is for the single riser method.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,974

    Thanks! I'll read through this tonight.
    How much difference is there in performance between the three ways of piping mentioned above? I'm guessing my quote is for the single riser method.

    Not sure anyone can really answer that.
    Personally I'd do two risers minimum as it keeps the water level more balanced in the boiler and greatly cuts down on carry over (water getting pulled into the header).

    A drop header may or may not increase performance but it is without a doubt easier to pipe as it's easier to line things up.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    jonny88