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indirect dhwh

Hey All....Have been using Burnham's Alliance indirect (only because the local National Grid program discounts Burnham boilers) & they stink.....slow would be a generous description of their transfer speed. I burn my hands on the supply & the return but the hot water leaving to a single faucet running is tepid at best....any ideas?...I would understand if the return was cool leaving the tank but there is little difference in temperature between the supply/return. I'm really hoping for some recommendations on the BEST indirects that you guys have used !

Comments

  • MarzMarz Posts: 90Member
    We use HTP Super Stors exclusively. Love em.
  • unclejohnunclejohn Posts: 1,289Member
    I use Smart tanks. How old is your tank.
  • SWEISWEI Posts: 7,356Member
    What's your water like there, and what size heat source is typical?
  • bluemoonbluemoon Posts: 36Member
    Tank & boiler new....customer complaint from day 1...boiler is adequate....as I said, return from tank is red hot...
  • j aj a Posts: 1,795Member
    I used Burnham Alliance….Never had a issue,that I know of...
  • delta Tdelta T Posts: 642Member
    What size tank? What size piping to the tank? What pump? What kind of flow are you getting through the coil? Have you measured the delta T across the coil? Sounds like a flow problem to me. Is there a priority control for the DHW?

    I have used these tanks in the past, while not my favorite, they are not terrible tanks by any means, and I have never had one not keep up with demand.

    My personal favorite for indirect WH is the Lochinvar Squire. Solid construction, great heat loss and great recovery.
  • HatterasguyHatterasguy Posts: 6,058Member
    bluemoon said:

    ..I would understand if the return was cool leaving the tank but there is little difference in temperature between the supply/return.

    Some actual data on the supply and return temperatures is required to help.

    "Little difference" as judged by one's hand isn't sufficient for a good analysis.

    Also, the temperature of the water in the tank is necessary when you make this measurement. The ΔT becomes quite small (on all indirects) when the SWT gets close to the temperature of the water in the tank.

    Most of them require a ΔT of 40°F between the tank temperature and the SWT if you want the stated performance (and you do). Therefore, the SWT needs to be a minimum of 170°F.
  • j aj a Posts: 1,795Member
    Pic if install often shows a lot….
  • HatterasguyHatterasguy Posts: 6,058Member
    j a said:

    Pic if install often shows a lot….

    You're looking for that 1/2" line...........aren't ya???? LOL.
  • j aj a Posts: 1,795Member
    Naw, that can’t happen, impossible….
  • RobGRobG Posts: 1,850Member
    Obviously something is amiss, could be flow, mixing valve, what is the tank temp setting? As stated above, pics would be great.
  • kcoppkcopp Posts: 3,087Member
    This is the same indirect as the Top Performer by Vaughn.
    It is pretty susceptible to liming up. The coil needs to be pulled and cleaned off w/ an Acid bath.
  • RobGRobG Posts: 1,850Member
    kcopp said:

    This is the same indirect as the Top Performer by Vaughn.
    It is pretty susceptible to liming up. The coil needs to be pulled and cleaned off w/ an Acid bath.

    He said they are new.
  • j aj a Posts: 1,795Member
    That's how read it as well, new...Seems strange, but possible new out of the box, piped correctly,wired correctly is not preforming...as advertised.... Are pics posted?
  • unclejohnunclejohn Posts: 1,289Member
    Slow the pump down if possible. If it's a single speed pump use the shut off valve to slow the flow.
  • 4Johnpipe4Johnpipe Posts: 479Member
    Sounds like a piping or pump issue...Pictures please...
    LANGAN'S PLUMBING & HEATING LLC
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  • Stephen MinnichStephen Minnich Posts: 2,051Member
    I prefer TT's Smart indirect but I've installed plenty of Alliances without any problems.
    Steve Minnich
  • jonny88jonny88 Posts: 1,139Member
    Last Alliance /Vaughn I installed I has a problem with aquastat.What is yours set at.I have a lot of them out there and not a problem so far.As stated a pic would help.
  • j aj a Posts: 1,795Member
    Maybe we will get two pics..on before and one after lol

  • kcoppkcopp Posts: 3,087Member
    Maybe there are 2 problems here. They have a 35 gallon version..... (too small) And it is limed up.

    I am using 2 indirects now. HTP Super stor Pro. and the Bradford White PowerStor. Powerstor has 3 anodes in it and smooth 1-1/2" coil.
  • j aj a Posts: 1,795Member
    bluemoon said:

    Tank & boiler new....customer complaint from day 1...boiler is adequate....as I said, return from tank is red hot...

    He says its new…i kinda don’t see a lime up as a issue…Secondly he says hot water at kit, sink wont get warm….They used to supply a dielectric for the well….Most installers in this area crank up the aquastst and install a thermostatic mixing valve…I like that for two reasons, one and most important is safety,and two being the water in the indirect stays hotter, keeps it germ safe…makes sense to me...
  • icesailoricesailor Posts: 7,265Member
    Something is wrong.

    If you use a 30+ GPM pump pushing a 30' head, into a 35 gallon Indirect, it is hard to tell WHAT is going on.

    Is it lukewarm at the kitchen sink faucet and lukewarm at the tank? Or is it hot at the tank, and warm at the kitchen faucet. That's a cross connection between the hot and cold.

    Some single lever faucets (like Moen's) always mix some cold with the hot or hot with the cold. The water never gets completely cold, or completely hot.

    An indirect is just another heating zone. Almost all have some form of a purge valve on the return for purging with a 1/2" boiler drain for purging. If the job can't afford drain adapters on the supplies of the Indirect, and you will go bankrupt over the cost of an adapter tee, so you can put pressure gauges in the supply and return to check the pressure, you left your paddle at the dock before you went up the creek.

    You need to know the flow rate through the indirect coil and how much heat is being removed. And it might be a cross connection. You need to know how hot the water is in the tank.
  • tim smithtim smith Posts: 2,252Member
    I used Superstor exclusively for years but I got tired of the fittings coming out of tank in no sensible configuration, angles always a bit weird. Have switched over to Lochinvar Squire tank, really well built and just a clean job and no more than the superstor. Just .02 worth. I split my time between Lochinvar WHN boilers and Triangle tube PT boilers depending on loads and concerns of noise. I find the WHN to be a little noisier at the combustion air inlet than Triangle but Lochinvar does have a 199 which I like for high production domestic hot water needs along with heating. 199,000 is the limit we can go with indirect hot water tanks in our region due to code. Also it has 5 to 1 turn down which is nice.
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