Rinnai heated hot water radiant concrete slab smells like dirty socks

ldh312

My basement slab is heated with hot water filled pex. It was not originally a closed system, but I was advised to put in a separate heat source and close the system with a back fill valve, which I did. Ever since, there is a peculiar odor in the basement. Could it be coming from the radiant heat system? I can't find any one in my location, Eugene, OR, to come service the system. They all say the smell cannot come from the floor heat.

Jack

Model #? Your installer won't come look at it? I cannot see how a Stainless HX close loop system could create a smell, but then again, I haven't seen it all. Something to look at though. While the units are sealed up pretty well I guess something could possibly have gotten in the unit and maybe you are smelling "cooked Mickey"

ldh312

It says V65 on the front. Is that the model? The installer won't even return my calls. The Rinnai itself is in the crawlspace which does not smell. The adjacent basement is the heated part and it is fully finished living space. The original system was installed 12 years ago, and the Rinnai went in about 1 1/2 years ago. It could be coincidental that the smell started about the same time. The basement is bone dry and no sign of mold. It does not smell like dead animal. I don't know how to begin to find the source of the smell.

jonny88

is it possible there is tar paper under radiant

wogpa67

Where is the condensate run to?

Just fyi this on page 42 of your manual.

There is no warranty coverage on product installed in a closed loop application, commonly associated with space heating
only applications.

ldh312

There is a small copper pipe that looks like it is below the back flow valve that then runs down the wall and pokes out and drips in the yard outside of the crawl space.

ldh312

I don't think that there is tar paper, but if there were, why would it wait 12 years to start smelling?

wogpa67

The condensate line should be Pvc or Cpvc.

ldh312

I can't see how the condensate line could be causing the smell as it is outside of the heated space where the problem lies. Can you tell me what you might be thinking in this regard?

wogpa67

Usually dirty sock syndrome is found in a/c evap coils from standing water in the drain pan.
Do you have an air handler in your basement to heat or cool your house?

ldh312

No air handler. Could it have something to do with the refrigerator? The basement has a full kitchen and laundry, but the smell is kind of pervasive in that it does not seem to be emanating from any particular place.

As I said earlier, it is bone dry and no sign of mold. There is only about 1/2 wall that is actually below grade and it was sealed with something called Tamoseal when it was built about 12 years ago. The floors are stained and finished concrete.

wogpa67

Is there a dishwasher?
Front load washing machine?

4Johnpipe

What type of floor finish do you have? It is possible that the new heat source is running at a higher temperature causing an off gas that was not noticed with a lower temperature heat source.

BobC

I'll second the front loading washer being a possible odor source if the door is left closed when not in use. The refrigerator drip pan can also cause problems.

Bob

ldh312

yes, both a front load washer and a dishwasher. I ran bleach and cleaners thru both and it did not help a bit.

I do like the off gasing theory. I am not sure what type of sealer they put on the floor. At this point, it seems like my best bet. I am going to try to strip the floor and have it resealed with some kind of sealer like RadonSeal. - Any suggestions in this regard?

Paul48

Look under the fridge. As said, if there's a drip pan, it can get ripe.

ldh312

I don't want to sound stupid - but how do I look under the fridge? Do I have to tip it up or should I be able to see a drip pan behind the front grate?

JUGHNE

The grate on the bottom of the front of the fridge should pop off (probably not any screws). The compressor, the "hot" coil, a small fan and the drip pan for condensate/defrost water all live down there. Un plug fridge and pull out away from wall.

On the back side of fridge may be a panel for the same area. It sounds like that has never been looked at and is time for it. The small fan down there runs most of the time and would be delivering air around the basement. There might be something living (or not) inside that compartment. Long condenser brush from big box store, vacuum and maybe air pressure would clean out the stuff in the coil. The drain pan comes out for a good wash. All the parts have to go back in place to assure air flow under the fridge. Air travels in one side of the grate and leaves thru the other side out the front. The back panel is important to make this happen.

vaporvac

On the Front-loader, the water collects around the gasket. It's a VERY common complaint with these, just google it and you'll see! Perhaps with a colder temp nothing could grow, but now it's hotter. I'd look there and the fridge first. If you've had the floors for a while it's unlikely it's from that and the smell would probably be different. It sound like you're describing standing water of some sort. The DW is a lso a possibility, but again , the other two are more likely and very common complaints.

ldh312

If it were the fridge or the washing machine, wouldn't the smell be stronger as you got closer to those machines. It seems to smell the same all over. In the stairwell, that I use to go down to the basement, I start to smell it about 4 or 5 stairs from the bottom. There is a fire door at the bottom of the stairwell, but it does not touch the ground. It is like the odor is wafting up from under the door, but it just sits down there and does not waft further up the stairs. I am so perplexed.

JUGHNE

The fridge condenser fan moves quite a bit of air around at the floor level. This would circulate the aroma through the room. This also sucks in any dirt/lint there is. If you have never cleaned the coil on the bottom there most likely is stuff in there and would just be good practice to check it out.

Once your nose is saturated with something like this it is hard to detect the actual source point.

As for the front loader washer; I've had an odor of sewer gas etc because the hose was pushed down the drainpipe too far and the washer would pump directly into the trap and cause the water trap seal to syphon dry. This allowed the sewer gas to enter the room. When the hose is pulled up above the trap water you can hear the discharge water splashing into the trap water as it should. We also have had just some odor from the machine itself but keeping the door open when not is use and also of course someone sells a cleaning product just for this situation of odor. Front loader odors have been discussed at length on the wall. Try a search on the wall for this.

ldh312

Thanks for all of the good advice. I really appreciate it. I am going to try under the fridge, but it will take my handyman to get behind the washer. I am very anxious to get to the bottom of this.

JUGHNE

If you can hear water splash into the drain when the washer pumps out then the drain hose is probably OK.

Another long shot/guess would be if your underfloor tubing was still bleeding air out of automatic vents somewhere. That air could be foul smelling. Air trapped in a system mixing with stagnant old water might produce some smells....just a suggestion.

ldh312

I don't think there are any vents in the tubing system. I want to bleed and refill the system, but can't find a plumber willing to help me. I downloaded instructions from the internet and thought my handyman might be able to figure it out. The plumbers I spoke with said that the smell can't come thru the pex and refused to drain the system for me.

Rich_49

Did you investigate the " Find A Contractor " feature of this site ? Where are you located ? Maybe someone here is near enough to help .

JUGHNE

The air vents I speak of would be maybe on the manifold where all the underfloor tubes are connected. Or at the boiler itself.
Are either of these in the room with the smell?

Also dryer vents that go thru the wall to the outdoors have been known to attract creatures that enter and perish in the dryer venting.

The handyman could check the fridge, washer, and dryer. These items may need cleaning in any case. That would eliminate those three items.

Do you have a floor drain that may have dried up? Or any other drains in the area that might have a dry trap?

ldh312

I am in Eugene, OR. No contractor on the site within 100 miles. It is a large college town (go Ducks), but no one wants to work on this kind of system. Anyone interested in a visit to Eugene? You can stay in the smelly apartment:) Apparently we are hosting the World Track and Field event in 2017, the first time it will be held in the US. Fix my smelly basement and you can stay with me for the event.

ldh312

The water heater and the manifold are all in a different room. The pipes exit the floor in a closet and then go thru the wall into the partially finished crawlspace where the water heater, pumps and the rest of the stuff are located. No smell in there.

The dryer vent goes thru the crawlspace too, and I opened it up at a taped joint, and could not smell anything in there.

No drains that I am aware of, unless there is something behind the washer dryer.

My tenant (I can't believe she does not want to leave) moves out on May 5, and I will start tearing it up, starting with the appliances.

Jack

Can you post a picture of the Rinnai, its vent etc. FYI, Rinnai does not authorize that V65 tankless WATER HEATER for close loop space heating. They have boilers for that.

ldh312

Hi Jack - I will take a picture this evening when I get home from work. Thank you for your help.

RobG

I would place my bet on the front load washing machine. Allot of people prop the door open to prevent the last dregs of water in there from stagnating. Try doing an empty load with bleach and then prop the door open and see if the odor dissipates, try the easiest things first. As said before, it is a common problem with front loaders as they don't fully drain.

ldh312

I did that once, but will try it again after my tenant moves out. I am tempted to put all the appliances outside and see if the smell goes away.

wogpa67

My tenant (I can't believe she does not want to leave) moves out on May 5, and I will start tearing it up, starting with the appliances.

Did she complain about the smell?

Or did you find it?

4Johnpipe

most front loader clothes washers require an anti mildew cycle with special chemicals. They do not use enough or can't get enough hot water to them to sanitize.

BobC

When I first had a front loader I noticed a sour mildew smell after the first month or so. I bought a washing machine cleaner that is for front loaders and ran that through the washer with hot water - that cured the smell.

I now leave the door open when the washer isn't being used and I haven't had a problem in over 10 years.

Bob

SWEI

Some of us have discovered that washing machines and dishwashers are happiest when their interiors spend the majority of their time exposed to fresh air.

My personal belief is that bedding follows the same rule.

Bob Bona_4

Same problem with our front loader, bought it 10 years ago before it was a well known issue. Leaving the door open and occasional HE rinse helps somewhat. Not sure if I would get another front loader.

ldh312

Here are some pictures. It is a little confusing. The expansion cylinder thing and the pumps are on one wall and the Rinnai and the backflow are on another wall at a 90 degree angle. There is a regular water heater in between that is no longer connected to the floor heat and it provides the hot water to the taps in the apartment. Hope this helps. There are two pumps because one is for the apartment and the other goes upstairs to a bathroom floor. The upstairs bathroom does not smell, but there is always a window open in there. Tho occasionally, I get a faint whiff of the odor in that bathroom.

jonny88

not here to pick apart install but I would strongly suggest you support that expansion tank.Any update on smell?

jonny88

In crawl space do you have a house trap.How is the toilet is it set correctly.as someone said look for traps if not vented they may loose seal.How did you do with fridge etc

ldh312

I don't think that it is the fridge. I found the drip pan and it is bone dry. No smell there. I don't know about a house trap. My tenant moved out yesterday, and the smell has dissipated. I am trying different things. Running the floor heat on high, doing a load of washing etc., to try to generate the smell. I am starting to think that it might actually be electrical, like maybe too high a wattage bulb in something?? Yesterday, I did turn on all of the lights and left them on all day, and the smell started to return, but it was not very strong. It could have been a coincidence, but I don't think so. After my test of the floor heat and the laundry, I am going to crank up the gas fireplace. If no smell today, then tomorrow I will test the lights again. What do you think? I did have the same problem with a previous tenant, so I don't think it was the particular tenant, but it was something that she was doing.