input and outout not that much difference in temp

maybemark

I just installed my Lochinvar 08e in my house.
I am not getting a big difference in input aand output temps
I think it's because my DHW is so close
I thought for these boilers to have a large difference in temps
any suggestions on what i should do?
thanks
Mark

SWEI

Slow the DHW pump down.

maybemark

I did, still very hot return
it was originally on 2, and went to 1

SWEI

This would be expected when the tank is just a few degrees below the on setpoint (as happens after a small draw or ambient losses.) Watch what it does when you fill a bathtub?

maybemark

I'm a shower kind a guy.
didn't you mention to me, that it's best to have a larger difference in between the in and out of the boiler.
The more efficient the boiler will be.

any other suggestions?

ced48

What is an 08e?

maybemark

ced
it meant to say 085, a model number, sorry

bmwpowere36m3

maybemark said:

I'm a shower kind a guy.
didn't you mention to me, that it's best to have a larger difference in between the in and out of the boiler.
The more efficient the boiler will be.

any other suggestions?

That's true... but generally when it comes to DWH you want to make it quick (recover). However it depends on your hot water usage, size of indirect and tank storage temp. If your storing water in the tank at 140*, then the boiler supply temp has to be a bit higher and naturally the return temps will be higher. The boiler won’t be operating really efficiently anyway, due to the higher temps (condensating at/below 130*). Now if you set the tank temp down to 120* or even lower… then maybe.

DWH is a small percentage of your total heating needs. Like I said, most want to have hot water and not wait for it... and since the boiler is not operating in the most efficient range, you want to get it done as quickly as possible. However there are things you can play with: tank storage temp, DWH pump speed and DWH boiler supply temp.

maybemark

this morning My boiler is blocked again
delta t to high.
what is causing this?

maybemark

now I am on locked out
message
outlet RAHL
what is going on? any suggestions?

ced48

SWEI said:

Slow the DHW pump down.

The Grundfos on speed 1 was still way to much pump for my Wh55 DHW loop. I am running a Taco Viridian 1816 set almost at the minimum speed, something like a Taco 003, and I still have a delta t of 12, or so-

maybemark

now it says sensors 1 and 2 are 194
outlet MRHL

maybemark

and the outlet pipe is cold, and the inlet pipe is verry warm

ced48

Almost no delta t, turbulence , and air issues.

maybemark

I got it out of lockout
it started
it had a delta t of -9 it inginted, in less than 5 minutes it went up to 70 the delta t and went back into lockout and saying outlet ARHL
before i did this i went to all the radiators and bled them all. there was some air in the lines, but not alot
it's been working fine for a few days, and now this.
I do not know what ARHL is, and it also says sensors 1 & 2 are at 193 degrees, no posible way for this, because the pipes are only warm to the touch
any ideas?

Heat_n_CT

I had ARHL and MRHL on my boiler when it would switch from DHW to SH. I had the 15-58 boiler pump on speed 1 and upon switch-over to SH I could watch the boiler temp rise until it locked out. Tech's solution was to use speed 2, yes it worked, no it wasn't the answer. Finally after some pleading they replaced the 15-58 with a new one, its been fine for the last two months...but the original was fine for the first two months.

What I'm trying to explain is the 15-58 just didn't turn over when it was in speed 1 after the boiler satisfied the DHW. From a regular SH call it would turn over in speed 1 without a problem. Tech said he has never seen one speed of a multi-speed pump not work.

maybemark

now I am back to blocked saying sensors 1 & 2 at 193 degrees
I don't know what is going on
these temps are wrong, can't be this hot, the boiler is not even heating
I don'r know what i should do.
I do have an extra pump and i will try speed 2 again on this pump, but
the sensors, I just don't understand

remodel

ARHL & MRHL..not good, you could fry the heat exchanger. What it is saying is there is not enough flow, so delta T is crazy high and you get hot water out but no input and she locks out. If the pump is good which it probably is, there is air somewhere. Turn it off and bleed air off the top of the boiler or where you have air. Probably not in the rads as they should not be in the DHW loop or is it happening when switching from DHW to SH. Is it piped P/S. My DWH loop typically gets 15 - 20 delta T and I have never had a lock out on that loop (50 gal indirect with a 155 lochinvar). I run the grundfos UPS 26 at speed 1. As ced48 stats air somewhere.

maybemark

oh, and it's saying MRHL now
does anyone know what this stands for?

remodel

You might need to get someone out there who has an understanding of the loch and how she is piped. MRHL and ARHL stand for manual reset high limit and automatic reset high limit. At this point you should post some pictures of near boiler piping setup.

maybemark

I have an air seperastor on top
I will try and back flow that
could the sensors be faulty?

hot_rod

Sometimes those speed selector switches get hung between settings and the pump will not be running. Make sure you get the switch in the correct position. I have seen one position fail on those switches. Really speed 2 or 3 will provide more floe= more output and faster recovery.

BTUs have no problem jumping off high flow rates into the tank or out of the boiler HX

ced48

I do not think you have faulty sensors. I would be helpful if you posted the near boiler piping pictures. As others have said, something is wrong, a blockage in the flow, perhaps, a reversed check valve, clogged y-strainer, etc-

maybemark

now it's on blocked, with a too high of delta t 93 degrees
I don't understand how it's so high, when it has not ignited in so long
my inlet pipe is cold, and outlet pipe is hot.
I added water to the system, it was making all sorts of noise, maybe i do have alot of air in the system
what do you think i should do?
I took a couple photos
I can't seem to post the photos

maybemark

I guess it was my DHW pump
I had it on speed one, and when I put it on speed 2
my deltat went to minus then went into the teens
Just looked, delta t is at 14 and everything is working fine
the pump, I'm glad i changed it back to 2 to try

maybemark

I thank everyone for your help and thoughts

maybemark

still working fine
I can't believe the pump was the problem to the DHW
I still don't understand how the sensors would read 193 when every thing was not working. Everything was cool to cold but the delta t was very high
last I looked delta t still at 14

maybemark

hat, both DHW and system on 3?
the delta t when it was high, would put the boiler on block
you tell me not to worry. I felt the need to tell everyone what is going on here
I thank you

maybemark

I put both system pump and DHW on 3

maybemark

Hat
It was suggested by kurt and many others I should not have a boiler loop, but just 1 pump for boiler and system.
My house is old, with 3" and 2" pipes for the runs, then going to 1" and 3/4" for the radiators
should i put the system back to 2?
I was not getting heat at some radiators in the back of the house, and the basement radiator never got warm but the days have been mild here in chicago now

maybemark

I turned up the heat, to see how the boiler will work, it reached the therostat temp, and the boiler stopped, and says blocked, anti cycling.
I know it stopped because it reached the temp, but why blocked, anti cycling?

remodel

what is the static pressure in the system? you got open up the service manual and read through it. blocked and anti-cycling means the temp hit the odr setpoint and it is running through the anti-cycling phase. Blocked does not insinuate the system has a blockage in the pipes. The boiler actually sounds like the systems and checks are working per how it was setup, the only thing is the ARHL and MRHL seem weird, even at low speed on those pumps I can't imagine the flows is so low you are getting an excessive delta T. IMHO.

maybemark

remodel
the pump have a bad #1 speed, once I turned it to 2, and now 3, everything is fine

maybemark

I've been told by some of you guys that my house is well too many radiator (good thing). I guess i really won't know until next winter, the days and nights are mild

maybemark

remodel
you are right, I really do need to read thru the service manual, I did skim thru it, obvisoly this is not enough. as far as being on low, I don't think it was running at all, when i had it on low, because I did not hear anything from the pump or system, until I put the pump on 2. someone else said on here low speed might be faulty.
thanks again