what happened to simple (cheap) balance valves?

archibald tuttle

i used to use simple butterfly style swing valves that adjusted with a screwdriver instead of a handle and they were cheaper than ball valves. would use them as modestly capable bypass adjusters for various hotwater radiators as opposed to building the whole thing up with venturi tees and the like.

i'm retrofitting a few up and down drops that were in freezing locations and i'm snaking 1/2" instead of 3/4 so i'm going to make balanced crossovers in the 3/4" feeds in the basement.

i've done this with ball valves but my understanding was that the butterfly style - more like a chimney damper - actually provide a little more range of adjustment and better internal geometry for this and i don't need the positive shut off of a ball valve.

but all the balance valves i'm finding are complicated affairs with complicated prices. am i using the wrong name for the balancers i used to use?

thanks,

brian

Don_197

You can simply use "butterfly valves" They are some of the least expensive valves you can get from your supplier.

hot_rod

Define "cheap"

Paul48

Not requiring a payment plan... I know what you mean hot rod. Go buy 4 good rib-eye steaks, to put it in perspective.

SWEI

Gate valves are cheap.

archibald tuttle

we don't talk about prices here on the wall, but definitions is different. maybe 7 bucks is what i remember paying. i 'define' 5 bucks as what i pay for a lead free 3/4" sweat ball valve and 10% more for a pex version.
so unit wise, even though the manufacturing can actually be a little loser on one of these they don't sell as many (partly cause they so damn hard to find). but everything i'm looking at is a multiple of 10 times what you pay for a ball valve. that's absurd in my book -- although they are more highly technical and capable implementations, i just don't need the precision and resilience.

Paul48

About the closest you'll find (appearance-wise), is a Watts PB-56. The price of that is a different story.

archibald tuttle

maybe they are just gone. i used to buy these very modest nonsealing butterflies for like 7 bucks. They weren't much more of a casting than like a jet fitting.

icesailor

archibald tuttle said:

maybe they are just gone. i used to buy these very modest nonsealing butterflies for like 7 bucks. They weren't much more of a casting than like a jet fitting.

I got a bunch of those once from an El Cheapo supplier that had monthly specials on foreign made fittings. What I remember best about those Butterfly loose closing purge/balancing was how much return water came back from the boiler return when doing a hard purge. They ended up in the scrap barrel. PB56's worked fine. A cheap copper valve and a boiler drain was good enough for me. If after 10 minutes of running, all returns were about the same temperature and I couldn't leave my hand on the pipe, life was good.

archibald tuttle

got yah. if i don't find 'em i'll just use a ball valve. and house are just chinese brass too with "no lead" if you're not lookin to hard i guess. like i'm loosing sleep or brain cells over this. i do that with alcohol.

i just figured it would pretty easy to make a decent simple one. i see what you are saying about bleeding favoring a full ball valve. although i isolated the near boiler stuff and bleed at 60 lbs so i think i'd be OK.

brian

icesailor

archibald tuttle said:

got yah. if i don't find 'em i'll just use a ball valve. and house are just chinese brass too with "no lead" if you're not lookin to hard i guess. like i'm loosing sleep or brain cells over this. i do that with alcohol.

i just figured it would pretty easy to make a decent simple one. i see what you are saying about bleeding favoring a full ball valve. although i isolated the near boiler stuff and bleed at 60 lbs so i think i'd be OK.

brian

My son came to visit me last week. We went somewhere (Gator Boys?) and they had a likeness of Captain Morgan with rum. I asked him if he would like me to take a picture of him standing next to the captain. He had told me that in the past, Captain Morgan made him grow horns and a tail.

He told me that if he had any Captain Morgan, he WOULD grow horns and a tail.

We left without the photo.

Because I always fed water to boilers into the bottom, and used zone Valves, I never did more than a ball valve on the return with a boiler drain above it to the system. Opening the zone I wanted to purge worked just fine. I had few systems that needed more than 5 gallons of water to purge, ant the pressure was through the boiler. When the water came back hot, and no bubbles in the bucket, the deed was done.

At least it was for me. Once it came hot, I opened the return valve. If it got hotter and hotter, it was purged. Close the open zone valve, open the next, if it didn't cool down and then get hotter again. the zone needed to be purged. Or be purged. On to the next one. Until done. It takes longer to put the tools back in the truck than it does to purge it. The best part is no moving furniture and putting end caps and covers back on. Or cleaning black venting water off the latex wall paint. Or looking for spray wash bottles that aren't there anymore. The cleaning Senorita's took all the half empty ones along with the partial toilet paper rolls and paper towel rolls for their own use.