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Replacing Taco 007 Boiler Pump - just looking for some pro tips * Pics*

Jonesey
Jonesey Member Posts: 11
Hi all, My 10+ year old Taco 007 pump (with Internal Flow Check) on my Weil McClain CGA Boiler is making a buzzing noise when operating. I filled the system thinking it was air but that didn't really stop the noise. I bought a replacement Taco 007. Here's my question: As pictured, I can isolate the pump using the ball valve (yellow handle) BUT as you can see in the pic, I cannot really isolate without draining a good deal of the supply line (7/8" PEX). So, is this a big deal? Should I just isolate the pump the best I can and refill the system? If so, is there a really effective way to do this?
Thank you for any and all help from experienced people - I really appreciate it.

Comments

  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,239
    edited March 2015
    You will loose some supply water. You can drain it in a bucket via the drain valve on the supply. Then set the bucket under the pump to catch the remainder when you break open the flange. If you want to make it easier in the future, install an isolation flange on the supply side.

    When you install the new pump, the motor must be on a horizontal plane as shown in the installation instructions included with the pump. This is likely why the current one failed. The bearings are water lubricated and with the motor in a vertical position, it creates an air bubble in the pump and looses lubrication. Good work practice also suggests putting the wiring terminal box on the top to shed any water in the event of a leak. If the pump is oriented wrong, you can easily correct this by removing the allen head bolts that fasten the motor to the volute and turning the motor to the desired position. You may also have to turn the flanges to a horizontal position. Depends which pump you got. If you have to do so, you should remove them, clean the threads a bit, apply Teflon tape and a dab of pipe dope on top of the tape. Reinstall to the correct position.

    Pat yourself on the back. You just did a better job than the original installer.

    PS.
    After pump install is complete, purge the pipes to remove any air that you let in during the replacement.
    Steve Thompson (Taco)
  • unclejohn
    unclejohn Member Posts: 1,833
    Good eye Harv.
  • Bob Bona_4
    Bob Bona_4 Member Posts: 2,083
    You've got bigger problems than losing water. Take a look at the installation instructions for that pump. It needs to be spun 90 degrees so the shaft axis is horizontal. You could get a pump with what's called a reverse flange so the piping flanges can remain. With the current orientation, and no air elimination that I can see,it's no wonder this one failed.
    Steve Thompson (Taco)
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 21,853
    And if you're in the mood to make some upgrades, looks like the expansion tank on the return, it could be piped for better performance. I'm not seeing an air purger?
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Steve Thompson (Taco)
    Steve Thompson (Taco) Member Posts: 204
    Jonesey, only speaking on the circulator...

    007's can be installed in a vertically up shaft orientation if the system pressure is above 20 PSI - but typical system pressures are 12 to 14 PSI requiring a horizontal shaft orientation (as previously noted in other posts).

    How did your system operate? If the boiler didn't cycle (quick on/off) and your delta T (supply/return temp) was 15 to 20 deg F stick with the single speed 007, either replacing the complete circ or just the cartridge (rotating assembly).

    If the delta T is less than 10 deg F consider a 3 speed 0015 (try speed 2) or a VR 1816 ECM circ (that has proportional & constant pressure plus constant speed modes). The constant pressure mode is nice as it comes close to matching the flat 007 performance curve.

    The folks that post here are expert "wet heads" and more than willing to offer great advice regarding your system...
  • MikeL_2
    MikeL_2 Member Posts: 483
    Air can find its way into that expansion tank and corrode the exsposed metal found in the top of the tank; this can reduce tank life.......
  • Jonesey
    Jonesey Member Posts: 11
    edited March 2015
    It hasn't failed yet - but it is making noise. Taco 007 IFC manual says horizontal is preferred but it also says it's OK to mount it upside down (as pictured) but I do plan to rotate the new one 90 degrees down (horizontal) as you guys mention. Thank You for the help! I'll let you know what happens.
  • jonny88
    jonny88 Member Posts: 1,139
    I remember that in that orientation a minimum of 20 psi also you should have more pipe after circ about 10 inches I believe.Taco make nice isolation flanges as Harvey pointed out ,makes changing circ in future a lot easier.
  • Shane_2
    Shane_2 Member Posts: 191
    Just keep in mind the Taco 007 manual says it is OK to mount the pump vertical -IF the system pressure is above 20 PSI. Most heating systems are not operating at that pressure.
    icesailor
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 21,853

    Jonesey, only speaking on the circulator...

    007's can be installed in a vertically up shaft orientation if the system pressure is above 20 PSI - but typical system pressures are 12 to 14 PSI requiring a horizontal shaft orientation (as previously noted in other posts).

    How did your system operate? If the boiler didn't cycle (quick on/off) and your delta T (supply/return temp) was 15 to 20 deg F stick with the single speed 007, either replacing the complete circ or just the cartridge (rotating assembly).

    If the delta T is less than 10 deg F consider a 3 speed 0015 (try speed 2) or a VR 1816 ECM circ (that has proportional & constant pressure plus constant speed modes). The constant pressure mode is nice as it comes close to matching the flat 007 performance curve.

    The folks that post here are expert "wet heads" and more than willing to offer great advice regarding your system...

    Steve, I've always wondered what the 20 psi changes and how it would prevent an air bubble at the top motor bearing when mounted as pictured?

    Also, is there a thrust washer of sorts that supports the motor load when it is vertically mounted, either shaft up, or down?
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • billtwocase
    billtwocase Member Posts: 2,385
    The new pump should be mounted horizontally to start with. Total re-pipe wouldn't hurt either
  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
    In MY contrary opinion (regardless of the opinion of Taco), those water lubricated Taco circulators should never be installed on their heads on a boiler supply, because the hotter supply water has a much greater opportunity to create steam inside the motor assembly and crud up the motor. And the grief I get about keeping system pressures higher for second floor pressures mean that pumps on their heads will always have air in them.

    In my experience.

    And IFC's can create lots of turbulence while reducing the flow and the steam/cavitation bubbles end up going right vertical, into the motor assembly.
  • Snowmelt
    Snowmelt Member Posts: 1,404
    Can't you just flip the pump over take the screws out of motor and flip that tooo.
  • Steve Thompson (Taco)
    Steve Thompson (Taco) Member Posts: 204
    icesailor - you make a great case for not installing a circ at the highest temp location (supply) - but it makes it difficult to comply with the "pumping away" theory (this is not "the opinion of Taco" - it's pretty much industry standard). But like I've stated numerous times, you guys are the experts that install this stuff day in and day out - and know what works. If it ain't broke don't fix it...

    Regarding the pressure/shaft orientation piece, to be safe I always recommend installing with the shaft horizontal on all ECM circs. I assume the reason (sorry for the assumption) we say pressures above 20 PSI vertical is acceptable is because the air bubble inside the rotor get's smaller as the pressure goes up (small enough to be above the outboard sleeve bearing).

    Not sure I get the turbulence/check valve comment. The IFC will cause turbulence however downstream of the circ. Some like the IFC in the volute some don't - that's why we do not install it in the volute at the factory - it's up to you guys if you want to use it (or even need it).
    RobG