Possible to approximate age of radiator valve? (Found out it's a Lavigne valve)

KC_Jones

So I have been going around my house repacking the valves on all my radiators (long overdue). Anyway when I do anything like this I always clean/polish/restore any pieces I take off. So this valve is in my living room (1 of 2 in the whole house). I am theorizing these might be original to the system? The handle is actually wood. I stripped all the paint and sanded it back to bare wood. The valve is also plated nickel or chrome not sure which. My question to anyone is this. Is it possible to approximate an age based on the valve? The wood handle is what has me fascinated, I haven't seen this and honestly until I took it apart and started stripping paint I had no idea it was wood. All the other valves in the house have Bakelite handles which I believe are newer. I love the wood handle and won't be painting back over it.

Fred

Nice! Bakelite was invented in 1907 and was most popular during the 1920's and 30's. Wood handles were most likely used from the late 1800's through to and including the same period as Bakelite, and probably into the 40's. As a matter of fact, many new steam valves today still use Bakelite handles.

KC_Jones

I have not been able to date my house exactly at this point so I am always looking at the clues. I know it's at least 1909 because I found it on a Sanborn map from that year. I also found pocket door hardware patented in 1890 so I have about a 20 year span that I am pretty sure of. Figured I would throw the valve out and see what people thought...plus I thought it looked nice. Oh the handle actually split in 2 when I removed it so I also had to glue it back together.

Fred

They always split. You will see many steam valves with only half a wooden handle!

KC_Jones

Fred said:

They always split. You will see many steam valves with only half a wooden handle!

Well what I am seeing on mine is the heat or possibly the packing leaking steam has "cooked" the bottom of it as it is cracked pretty bad. I glued the halves back together, but I also have some architectural repair epoxy I may fill the bottom with to help preserve it. I am not one to replace these old pieces...I like to preserve this stuff when I can. I may tackle cleaning and polishing the whole valve once the weather is warmer. The paint may have actually helped preserve it....I hope! This is the stuff that makes me love old houses.

FranklinD

I've been slowly repacking valves on my hot water system. My house was built in 1914 and all of mine also have the wooden knobs. I'm only missing 2 (out of a total of 9). When a friend remodeled he gave me his old bathroom rad (now in my bathroom where one was missing). He also gave me a few hand valves that he had replaced...3 total with wooden handles. A couple are split but I'll be gluing them together. I do love the look. All the valves in my place are also that high-shine nickel finish on the bodies.

vaporvac

That is SO pretty. You might try some sort of clear coat to protect it from any moisture.

KC_Jones

Interesting thanks for that. Most of the hits seem to be about packless valves for 2 pipe vapor systems, but I do see that "L" in the pictures same as mine. Nice catch thanks for that! I love learning new things!

Abracadabra

Lavigne Valve

They do look like they have the Lavigne logo, but it doesn't look to me like they are the Lavigne packless valves. The one @KC_Jones shows looks like it has a packing nut on it. Good catch on the "L" logo tho @Jim_R !

KC_Jones

I am guessing my valve pre dates these packless valves? Or is it once the packless came out it got all the "glory"? Still some cool stuff!

ChicagoCooperator

The building I grew up in was built in 1906 and we had a few wooden handles like this (and a few broken one's). It seems to me that I might have had some wooden handles in the 20's building I lived in later, but I think they were all bakelite or newer plastics there. I'd say your house was right in that 1900-1910 vintage.

KC_Jones

Abracadabra said:

Lavigne Valve

They do look like they have the Lavigne logo, but it doesn't look to me like they are the Lavigne packless valves. The one @KC_Jones shows looks like it has a packing nut on it. Good catch on the "L" logo tho @Jim_R !

The logo is definitely a match without question. I found Gerry Gill actually has the packless valve patent on his website (of course). The patent is from 1911 and as I said I know for a fact my house is earlier than that. I guess this valve is what they made before the packless and possibly since it wasn't a big deal there isn't much info out there about mine? http://www.gwgillplumbingandheating.com/webapp/GetFile?fid={29BE8735-5259-48EF-8EC1-CEAFBF2CC446}
In some of the other cutaways of the valve (other than them being packless) everything else looks the same including the "structure" of the handle that first peaked my curiosity. Good stuff! Oh and I might add I have already talked to my father about possibly turning some wooden handles for the other valves to match this...just because I can....yes I am crazy like that.

KC_Jones

Interesting thanks!

KC_Jones

So I repacked another one with the wooden handle. I have a total of 3 that still have the wooden handles. I have 2 others that are the same brand with replacement plastic handles and 2 new valves with plastic handles that don't have a visible marking. The top disc/washer on this valve was toast as far as the finish goes so I made a new one out of some 18 gauge stainless steel I had laying around. The crack has been glued, but still noticeable. Oh well not bad for 100+ years old. I was able to remove the whole bonnet on this valve and clean up all those pieces. I honestly thoroughly enjoy this kind of "restoration" work.

vaporvac

beautiful job on a cool artifact.

KC_Jones

I have the date narrowed down to about a 20 year period which honestly is good enough for me. I was just throwing this one out to see if the valves could possibly narrow it down further...I figured it was a bit of a long shot. Not sure about the valve body, I haven't tried to strip one down yet to see what is under that paint. I suspect it's either brass or nickel plated brass which is what the bonnet is. I might try stripping one down in our bedroom to see what it looks like. I need to be delicate doing it in place because I use heat to strip the paint. Basically char it and then a brass wire brush to take it off. I avoid scrapping since that can mar any finish that is underneath....that is until I determine the finish underneath is toast then I get more aggressive. I am going to talk to my father tonight about possibly turning new wooden handles for the valves in the house that don't have them (currently plastic replacements). I have some nice mahogany laying around that would be the perfect size and thickness to make them out of.

Abracadabra

Be careful removing that paint with a heat gun. If it's lead based paint you need to use a low temp heat gun, otherwise you'll release lead into the air.

KC_Jones

It's all latex paint. The guy I bought the house from taped off the windows and brought in a sprayer and literally sprayed everything (trim, rads, walls etc.) the same color latex paint. He is a house flipper and is also clueless. When the rads are hot I can literally peel paint off of them, that's what gave me the idea of using heat to protect the chrome finish on these. Oh and yes my heat gun has 2 settings only high goes above the danger level for the lead issue so I always use the low setting just to be safe.
EDIT: Read my other post the word "char" was a poor choice and would sound bad with lead paint.

KC_Jones

On the valves there isn't anything under the latex, believe me I have been up close an personal with it. Like I said the guy was a flipper and dumb...who paints a nice chrome or brass valve? He was sure to rip out all the original door hardware and put in modern handles...ugh. Did I mention he also owns a store that he sells used hardware in? Oh and he has a museum of local history and building materials. I wonder where he got all that stuff from? lol

RobG

Do you have any of the original toilets in the house? If you do look at the bottom of the lid or at the backside of the tank, there is usually a date stamped on them. They probably would have installed the heat and water at the same time as pluming without heat is a no no.