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New CSST regs....

kcopp
kcopp Member Posts: 3,821
I got this from a Gastite Mfg. rep today.... interesting.

2015 model codes have been updated with respect to CSST bonding instruction.


The 2015 requirements allow the bond clamp to be attached anywhere on the fuel gas piping system (instead of upstream of the first section of CSST). This is helpful as this change can often result in shorter bonding wire lengths and/or simpler bond wire routings.


Additionally, the 2015 model codes limit the bond wire to a maximum length of 75 ft., and add that any additional grounding electrodes used shall be bonded to the grounding system.


The applicable section, 310.1.1 CSST, of 2015 IFGC is attached for your information.


2015 IFGC 310.1.1 Direct Bonding CSST

Gastite has updated its direct bonding requirements for Gastite CSST in technical bulletin TB 2014-01, posted at www.gastite.com . The direct link is below.

PDF Link: http://www.gastite.com/downloads/pdfs/Direct-bonding_TB2014-01.pdf


Gastite has also updated this info in the 2015 Gastite Design and Installation Guide, which will be distributed at the end of March.


Comments

  • Bob Bona_4
    Bob Bona_4 Member Posts: 2,083
    edited March 2015
    Things were sweet for a few years with the strike diffusion jackets, but lately I've had inspectors tell me they need bonding with that too. Meant to ask a few vendors out at Chicago what's up with that and heck, why not just go back to the yellow stuff?
  • wogpa67
    wogpa67 Member Posts: 238
    I'll just continue to cut and thread pipe myself. Don't trust that stuff for gas.
    Most of the boilers I Install are a split. Half press and half I'll cut and thread.
  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 3,821
    Here in NH you still need to bond no matter what. I still most of the time cut and thread. The only time I use csst is if it would be very difficult to do blk steel.
  • DZoro
    DZoro Member Posts: 1,048
    If I followed that correctly, they are referring to the yellow gastite. Flashshield (black) is not mentioned in the bonding requirements.
  • wogpa67
    wogpa67 Member Posts: 238
    Same here in Pa. Easy to bond black pipe..
  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
    In December, 2014, Massachusetts the 2012 National Fuel Gas Code (NFPA 54) with State Amendments. There's always been a lot of misinformation on how CSST can be used. The Trade Show issue of NE Progress/PHCC has a good rundown. Its worth the read. Whether you use it, like it, or hate it, its not going away. Each and every kind is "System" and not a component. With the changes, people will need to be recertified for the different "Systems".
  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 3,821
    edited March 2015
    Black jacket or yellow... I am required to bond. I do run into a lot of systems that were installed prior to all the bonding requirements. I am required to bond them if I see them.
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
    wogpa67 said:

    Easy to bond black pipe..

    ...and hard to damage it once it's installed.
  • j a_2
    j a_2 Member Posts: 1,796
    Me, i just don’t like it,but not to say anything wrong with it…I saw some at the big box store….Maybe some people use it for water…..LOL
  • Tom_133
    Tom_133 Member Posts: 773
    Yeah, I noticed this code change a couple weeks in my gas update class. They also said we can use press fittings and copper pipe on LP if the fuel provider is ok with it.
    Tom
    Montpelier Vt
  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
    j a said:

    Me, i just don’t like it,but not to say anything wrong with it…I saw some at the big box store….Maybe some people use it for water…..LOL

    I don't see how they can sell it at a big box store. Under NFPA 54, it is considered a "System" and not a "Component". Part of their approval process long ago was that you had to be trained and certified to use it by each and every manufacturer to install their "System". If you are not certified to install it, how can you install it, I have 5 certification cards in my wallet. Some go back as far as the 1990's. TracPipe and Wardflex CSST tubing aren't compatable with each others tubing. The spacing is different.

    If Johnny "DIY Homeowner goes to HD, and buys a bunch to re-gas pipe his house, does the auto-check out scan his certification? The women in the regular check out line?

    If the CSST manufacturers are so hungry to sell their products to the public at big box stores, maybe the product should be removed from approval. While I was active, any time I went in a strange store where they didn't know me, they asked me for my certification card. They're not supposed to sell the product to uncertified installers. If I am certified for Wardflex and not Track Pipe, and I go to purchase TrackPipe, they're not supposed to sell it to me.

  • j a_2
    j a_2 Member Posts: 1,796
    Totally agree. Its a train wreck happening and there is not a thing we can do about it...very sad...hopefully the new younger guys get a handle on this. I think most homeowners and the unlicensed understand...its not that they are by any means unskilled and not capable...so clearly no ofence to them....I Mass at least it the law....thank God...


    .
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,837
    Did they ever test ANY of this stuff in a lightning lab? That was the big sticking point in law suits from a few years back. The manufacturers couldn't even show that it had been tested in a lightning lab. I se one good resolution to the use of this stuff, previous and future.

    Require a solenoid shut off valve connected to the fuel supply outside of the building that is controlled by a "near lightning strike detector", that if lightning is detected, it shuts the fuel system down and requires a technician to come out and test for vessel integrity. Once integrity is confirmed, controller is reset and fuel restored.

    We have the technology...

    I had a 3.5 million dollar house burn to the ground, allegedly due to this material, and a lightning strike that hit 6/10 of a mile away.

    As I told their lawyer during deposition, who asked me if I would EVER consider using their product in the future (and I didn't install the stuff in the house that burned to the ground, was there consulting on other heating "issues")

    I responded "Sure... Show me some place on the face of this big blue marble that has a high Earthquake potential, and no lightning, and I will use it till the cows come home..." He didn't like my answer.

    NIMBY, or my customers homes.

    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • bmwpowere36m3
    bmwpowere36m3 Member Posts: 512
    edited March 2015
    @icesailor

    Around here, in Connecticut, they sell CSST and fittings at HD... it does however have a sticker on it saying something along the lines, "only to be installed/purchased by licensed....". If I remember correctly. They definitely sell gas fittings (ball valves, IPS) to anyone.

    I found it interesting that they had it... however I don't know if there are any stipulations to buying it. As in does HD enforce sales to only licensed professionals. I know there aren't home inspections/permits needed in every part of the US... so why would they (home centers, supply houses, etc…) require licensed professionals to purchase the product.

    Hell, you can buy black pipe and they won't know if your using it for gas or not. I think it’ll come down to your local jurisdiction and whether they require permits and/or a licensed professional to install. I don’t know about gas… but I’ve down everything else in the house, with permits and the inspector signs them off when he’s satisfied.
  • bmwpowere36m3
    bmwpowere36m3 Member Posts: 512
    Just looked up the CSST on HD's site, Home-Flex. They state you go to their website and fill out a form... and boom, your a certified installer. HAHAHAHA
    Bob Bona_4
  • Rich_49
    Rich_49 Member Posts: 2,611
    Sometimes even the pros screw up guys . Right here in my area , look at what the gas company did . This is bad but really cool lookin , will make people think about gas DIY .

    https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=A0LEVvcCqvhU814AvA8lnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTB0ZjNuMHJ1BHNlYwNzYwRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkA1lIUzAwM18x?p=Stafford+township+gas+explosion&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-004

    Oh yeah , a second one that week .

    http://www.thestate.com/2015/03/02/4020077/man-hurt-in-2nd-recent-gas-explosion.html
    You didn't get what you didn't pay for and it will never be what you thought it would .
    Langans Plumbing & Heating LLC
    732-751-1560
    Serving most of New Jersey, Eastern Pa .
    Consultation, Design & Installation anywhere
    Rich McGrath 732-581-3833
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 14,842
    I agree with ME. We won't use it, for the same reason. For us, black threaded steel or someone else can have the job and the liability.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting