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It's a cooking stove... no, it's a central heating boiler... no, it's both!

Gordan
Gordan Member Posts: 891
I have doubtless been living under a rock, but I think this is way cool:

http://www.termometal.hr/proizvodi/kotlovi-peci/stednjaci-senko-za-centralno-grijanje/senko-stednjak-c-30-inox-lux-2330d-za-centralno-grijanje-35kw-dimnjak-desno/2980/

They (Senko, which I gather is a Croatian company) make other models, some with and some without an oven. This one has a nice, large cooking plate, an oven that's stainless inside and out, a thermally protected hookup for hydronic heating, and you get not one but two firing chambers - an upper one for summers and a lower one for winters. And all this for considerably less than a run-of-the-mill stainless steel range costs here.

I think that the first house I build from scratch (and the one they wheel me out from) will have one of these. Or something like it.

Comments

  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
    How far we have come.

    In the 1900's it was very modern to have a stove like that in certain areas of the USA. Life moved on.

    I guess that some want to go back to that cold war era of what life was like behind the Iron Curtain.

    Some AHJ person would want to see a UL/CSA approval listing on that before allowing it to be signed off on a final inspection.

    People today, don't know how many # of wood you need to feed one of those beasts for a night. Fear not of fire though. The fire department has a 100% record of saving chimneys. There may be nothing left, but the chimney is still standing.
    ProblemSolverMark EathertonGordy
  • Gordan
    Gordan Member Posts: 891
    Hm.

    I'm not quite sure what aspect of it gives you the grumbles.

    I'm quite familiar with the wood burning cooking stoves of old. They heated the space directly, whether you needed that or not, and there was no provision for distributing the heat, which is why some people in this country still dabble with sticking low mass copper coils on the backs of their cooker, with all the issues that entails. But this is designed, built and certified (by EU standards, natch) as a combined cooking/central heating appliance. And you can integrate storage tanks with it just as you could any wood boiler.

    Maybe you find them Europeans not to be sticklers enough for safety?

    Or maybe you just like grumbling. :-)
  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
    edited March 2015
    "" Or maybe you just like grumbling. :-) ""

    I'm not grumbling. I could care less. There's a lot of EU and overseas equipment used that can't pass US safety standards. Back after the 1973 "oil crisis", and 1980 when Ronald Reagan ordered the Solar Panels removed from the White House, a lot of people put in wood stoves for their primary heat with no back up. After 1980, it became hard to sell a house with no heat other than a wood stove, and the owners couldn't go away without someone living there to keep the stove going in cold weather and freezing pipes.

    Just my experience.

    Maybe my problem is that so many (with some unexplained interest) have so much good to say about something. It may be good, but then, someone needs to point out the minus's to interested persons for an informed decision.

    Put another way, "What would Consumer's Report say?
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 15,014
    Thanks for the link. Wood and biomass are common with off griders hydro to heat.com has some nice wood cook stoves also.

    I heat the shop with a wood gasification boiler and have a small parlor stove in the house. Very common to see wood heat in rural areas of Europe. There will be hundreds of manufacturers at the ISH show this month showing wood and biomass products.

    EVO World in Troy NY has some large bio and pellet boilers going out to commercial jobs in the area. Burned efficiently wood, chips, and pellets are a great energy source.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
    In 1600, old growth virgin forests ran from the Atlantic coast to the Mississippi River, Until they cut them all down. The only old growth forests left in the USA are in the West. The loggers are just salivating over the chance to cut them down and send the rough logs to Asia for their use.

    There are 300 YO buildings in the USA made with that old growth timber. How long does a wood pellet in a stove last?

    Waste not, want not.
  • clammy
    clammy Member Posts: 2,666
    The first time i went to germany the apartment i stayed at had a combination oven stove /heater with a very small blower and it was connected to a chimney .They also had a small wall hung bosch hot watre heater that was just put in .The apartment next to the one i stayed in still had a wood fired hot water heater copper tubed my girlfriend at the time had the one in her place updated of course by mandate the neighbor was like 80 so they let her ride plus she wouldn t let them in lol.The gas combo stoves where a improvement to the wood stoves that heated each apartment they where all gone and the whole complex was heated with panel rads w trvs .All the riser pipe was exposed in some areas but most runs where hiden in a 2 tier moulding .They where joined with what looked like a pro press type fitting but with a lot of speciality fittings that i have never seen in this country .They also used a plastic sleeved copper tubing that had a air gap and looked to not be completly extruded onto the copper .All the piping aside from that was steel and welded and massivly insulated .Like others have stated and they had told me at the time that in the cities those types of appliances where going the way of the dodo but they where still very popular outside the cities for space heating.That was over 20 years ago and then i was seeing hydronic solar and some good sized storage and alot of country side wood /coal gasifaction boilers in closed loop system as either primary or secondary heat source for there oil fired boilers.Saw alot of buderus /de detric and amazingly 1 hydrotherm at the nurmberg dispaly by the power and gas co .It was all very neat and a whole differnt way of doing things and living peace and good luck clammy
    R.A. Calmbacher L.L.C. HVAC
    NJ Master HVAC Lic.
    Mahwah, NJ
    Specializing in steam and hydronic heating
  • vaporvac
    vaporvac Member Posts: 1,520
    This is the way the original AGAs were designed to work. There are still many going in the UK countryside in old homes that can support their weight. Of course, now, they're a trophy home "must-have". The AGA's are designed for wood, coal or gas. The only problem is that the stove aspect is always on, so not so great in our hot, humid summers. I've lived in hoses with gas ones and they put out a wonderful heat, but until recently, the Summers over there weren't exactly balmy.
    Two-pipe Trane vaporvacuum system; 1466 edr
    Twinned, staged Slantfin TR50s piped into 4" header with Riello G400 burners; 240K lead, 200K lag Btus. Controlled by Taco Relay and Honeywell RTH6580WF
  • Weezbo
    Weezbo Member Posts: 6,232
    That is somewhat like an off grid lash up i have seen.
    The guy had a hole he excavated outside ,under the snow was a "Lid" that was removed by like a 966 with some fork attachments he made for the bucket , every so often he would shove in ten or twenty 12 foot logs or so ...
    this thing had some type of gen set that ran off the heat ,the exhaust heat ran up thru the ground into a large super delux iron cook stove with grill, ovens , firebox of its own , the heat passed thru this pretty much constantly out of the stack which was vertical again then horizontal maybe 46 feet to the furthest end of the cabin ,the stove was maybe 8 to 12 feet long, it heated by radiation .. :) had a water maker of some sort for hot water lashed up to this for immediate hot water , er ... Not asme
    ul csa no din numbers not even a barcode on any of the equipment or appliances . It did not even have a satellite controlled coffee pot or low sone microwave cook top exhaust.!
    Sorta makes one wonder how people managed 40 , 50 years ago...

    *~//: )
    CanuckerGordy
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 8,931
    Having been (and still am) a volunteer fireman for 37 years, we have seen a little bit of everything. We have carried many wood burning stoves, (still burning) out from a burned/smoke/water damaged house. However, the source/cause of the fire was ALWAYS the chimney, not the stove itself. There has been every type of stove; fireplace-cookstove-pot belly- Franklin-basement furnace and even the infamous 55 gal barrel stove (sometimes the double-barrel version). Our district covers over 475 square miles, the farthest point being 38 miles away.

    People who have grown up with this type of heating know that the chimney is what to worry about. Old timers knew that if there was snow on the ground and especially the roof it was time to burn the chimney clean. You open the draft and let it roar, the single layer black pipe might get cherry red as it went into the chimney and you burned out the creosote. Newbies don't realize this and put in a tight slow burning low air/fire stove that really creates creosote. Sometimes burn green wood which adds to it. They think this is low maintainence appliance like a self-defrost refrigerator. So it always on the worst coldest night with 30-40 MPH winds at 3 am they hear this roaring sounding of a chimney fire. If lucky it burns itself out before we arrive. And then 2-3 guys go up the roof with log chains (I found some window weights to use, they are more effective and lighter than 30' of serious chain) and drop down to knock out the tar. If still burning then down stairs we throw in a "Chimex" fusey into the stove and hold the door shut with an axe. This burns and depletes oxygen in the chimney. If this is the third call of the season then maybe the hose may go down the chimney and will probably ruin the chimney but save the house.
    Now this is opposite of Ice's theory that all we save is the chimney and lose the house. WE ruin the chimney and save the house. But there are times we loose the whole thing, chimney included. (Remember that 38 mile drive down a bad country road, after you get 10-20 people up in the middle of the night and their windshields are coated with an inch of ice).

    Wood burning is a serious business and one must be aware of where the products of combustion go.
    SWEIGordy
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 15,014
    JUGHNE said:

    Having been (and still am) a volunteer fireman for 37 years, we have seen a little bit of everything. We have carried many wood burning stoves, (still burning) out from a burned/smoke/water damaged house. However, the source/cause of the fire was ALWAYS the chimney, not the stove itself. There has been every type of stove; fireplace-cookstove-pot belly- Franklin-basement furnace and even the infamous 55 gal barrel stove (sometimes the double-barrel version). Our district covers over 475 square miles, the farthest point being 38 miles away.

    People who have grown up with this type of heating know that the chimney is what to worry about. Old timers knew that if there was snow on the ground and especially the roof it was time to burn the chimney clean. You open the draft and let it roar, the single layer black pipe might get cherry red as it went into the chimney and you burned out the creosote. Newbies don't realize this and put in a tight slow burning low air/fire stove that really creates creosote. Sometimes burn green wood which adds to it. They think this is low maintainence appliance like a self-defrost refrigerator. So it always on the worst coldest night with 30-40 MPH winds at 3 am they hear this roaring sounding of a chimney fire. If lucky it burns itself out before we arrive. And then 2-3 guys go up the roof with log chains (I found some window weights to use, they are more effective and lighter than 30' of serious chain) and drop down to knock out the tar. If still burning then down stairs we throw in a "Chimex" fusey into the stove and hold the door shut with an axe. This burns and depletes oxygen in the chimney. If this is the third call of the season then maybe the hose may go down the chimney and will probably ruin the chimney but save the house.
    Now this is opposite of Ice's theory that all we save is the chimney and lose the house. WE ruin the chimney and save the house. But there are times we loose the whole thing, chimney included. (Remember that 38 mile drive down a bad country road, after you get 10-20 people up in the middle of the night and their windshields are coated with an inch of ice).

    Wood burning is a serious business and one must be aware of where the products of combustion go.

    And the CO that wood burners can create and dump into the living space.

    Many homeowners think CO is only a by product of gas fired appliances.

    CO detectors are just as important as Smoke detectors.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    icesailor
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
    Took a bit of sleuthing to go look that one up. Turns out it's Chimfex (CHIMney Fire EXtinguisher.) Also a competitor. I think I need to buy a box and give them as Christmas gifts.
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 8,931
    Every firetruck has 2-3 on board, we have needed them less as fewer people have time or ambition to burn wood. These look like a road side fuse/flare. We have enough for the near future. However the advertised speed of them working isn't quite that quick. Buy the time one gets into the fire it is well under way. A chimney fire will pull air in from the top to continue burning. Many old chimneys here are not lined and the mortar is porous allowing more air entry with the severe draft produced. These houses are easy to spot at night, maybe a 5' blowtorch on the roof.

    They produce I assume an oxygen depleting substance when burned and are a serious item to have in a house.

    Perhaps like the old glass fire extinguishers with the red liquid inside; the directions said to throw at the base of the fire and leave the room immediately. (was that carbon tetrachloride?)
    I know Icesailor knows what I mean. They had the shape of a light bulb.
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
    JUGHNE said:

    These houses are easy to spot at night, maybe a 5' blowtorch on the roof.

    ROFL. That really painted a picture for me.
    Perhaps like the old glass fire extinguishers with the red liquid inside; the directions said to throw at the base of the fire and leave the room immediately. (was that carbon tetrachloride?)
    Yes, carbon tet for sure. My fire marshal has a couple of them in his office that were 'automatic' models - sat in a plastic base that had a fusible element of some sort in the bottom. They used to hang them in attics.
  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
    "" Now this is opposite of Ice's theory that all we save is the chimney and lose the house. WE ruin the chimney and save the house. But there are times we loose the whole thing, chimney included. (Remember that 38 mile drive down a bad country road, after you get 10-20 people up in the middle of the night and their windshields are coated with an inch of ice).

    Wood burning is a serious business and one must be aware of where the products of combustion go. ""

    My comment about fire departments never loosing a chimney even though they lost the house came from my good friend Max, the Fire Captain. He says that after every fire where the house was destroyed, but the chimney was still standing.

    Fire person's are almost always right.
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 8,931
    edited March 2015
    Because your area has building codes: that require a clay flue liner and better construction techniques than rural Midwest.
    Your chimneys are just better constructed than ours.

    The old farmhouses built during the hard times were on a real budget. No liner, not good brick available and homemade.

    It would have been unheard of for any government agency to tell someone how to build their house at that time. Today, the state requires the electrical inspection. NG or LP suppliers look at some things to CTA. Septic systems should meet state code, but many are not looked at. New wells have to be registered. Every one knows to put the septic downstream of the water well.
    But the ones with the most clout are the banker/financial company if you borrow money against the structure. The government suggests but the money always speaks the loudest. FHA & VA have their own requirements. Not a bad system.

    I almost forgot the deepest pockets of all: Insurance companies, they will tell you what must be done. That is one reason why people change companies. Some inspection is done and a list of improvements must be met. People find another company that does not ask so many questions. Not as easy as it used to be.
  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
    Where I lived and worked, clay tiles weren't used by the average mason/chimney builder until the 1970's and code enforcement.
  • Leo_G
    Leo_G Member Posts: 89
    For those that burn wood, potato peels into the fire at least twice a week will help to dry the creosote and have it crumble off the chimney. Can't find the paper right now, but this was actually put through a ridged test and was peer reviewed. The minerals in the peels.

    Of course if you do not eat a lot of potatoes, there are a lot of different products out that do the same, most using a copper mineral mix. And yes they do work!
  • Leo_G
    Leo_G Member Posts: 89
    Not mine, but something I do aspire to!
  • KiwiFella
    KiwiFella Member Posts: 7
    I could have filled many paragraphs about this topic. I repair wood & coal fired cookers/ranges.
    Yes flues or chimneys can & do catch on fire but that's because of the way the fire is operated as well as the style of flue placed into the building.
    A flue MUST BE HOT right up to the top edge of the flue. Otherwise the condensation can form and then creosote forms which can catch on fire or virtually totally shut the cookers firebox down because of choked up flue passage way.

    If you have creosote problem, it will be worse at the top of a flue.
    It becomes worse as the moisture condenses and runs down inside the flue because of the soot particles get attached and fix themselves at that point.
    If its a cooker like the very successful UK made Rayburn, Aga, Stanley, Esse as well as other makes and brands of cookers which have boilers, ovens and cooking surfaces, they will give details of recommended flue designs. More often than not, they will have a 3 skinned flue and if possible, I'd recommend a layer of ceramic insulation blanket between the outer two skins.
    This insulation is recommended right to the top edge of the flue.
    If its hot, no creosote, no reason to clean the flue so often, & NO FIRES where we don't want them.

    These cookers can run many radiators for heating of the house as well as ample amounts of hot water cylinders.
    I'm in the middle of designing the heating of a 12 metre square conservatory with our large Rayburn cooker. This will also heat the house as well as being a appliance to cook on & bake in.
    In winter months with temperatures outside of down to -10º C, but mostly about -4º & highs of +7 or +8º C., there is always instant heat for immediate cooking or hot showers.
    AND there is no cost as we grow our own fuel and none of our precious income needs to go to energy costs or the IR.

    So if you're worried about fires in flues, and the causes, I recommend you do research on the flue design.
    A good book I found to start with is,
    "Jay Shelton's SOLID FUELS ENCYLOPEDIA"
    ISBN 0-88266-307-0

  • Leonard
    Leonard Member Posts: 903
    edited February 2018
    "Perhaps like the old glass fire extinguishers with the red liquid inside; the directions said to throw at the base of the fire and leave the room immediately. (was that carbon tetrachloride?)"

    Yes carbon tet .......Leave immediately since anything containing chlorine atoms when burned makes the deadly gas phosgene, Germans used it in WW1. One TINY whiff and your in serious trouble if not dead. Same with Freon, and any of the chlorinated brake or carburetor cleaners, PVC .......

    Dangers of burning chlorinated solvents ----> https://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=163515&highlight=phosgen
    ---------------------------------------------
    On the theme of the original post ......It's a cooking stove... no, it's a central heating boiler... no, it's both!

    That reminds me of an house turned 2nd "apartment" that I saw after I got out of school. In the "living room/kitchen" was a LARGE OLD wood or coal stove for cooking, that had an oil burner feeding it hot air into it's front door. The burner was on cement blocks and had about a 2-3 foot asbestoes covered fire tube feeding hot air into the "stove". I was told I could cook on the stove. The heat radiating and convecting off the "stove" was the primary heat source for the apt in cold winter time ( Massachusetts). Couldn't run away fast enough....


    .