New Steam Boiler Install - Black Liquid in Gauge Glass

paradiseheat

Just had a Weil McLain Eg45 gas steam boiler installed a few days ago. It is working well and heating the house nicely, but we have noticed an odd smell from the radiators. From some limited research, I understand this could be caused by oil in the system, which should have been removed by skimming @ the time of install. I am in the process of following up with the installer to see if skimming was done.

In the meantime, I took a look at the boiler and noticed a black liquid in the bottom of the gauge glass. Photo is attached. I suspect the black liquid is oil. Can anyone confirm? If oil, is this a serious problem and, if so, do I need to have the installer come back to fix? Is the solution skimming the oil out of the boiler?

Thanks for any insight / guidance.

Abracadabra

Oil floats. That's probably iron. When you drain water from boiler, put it in a cup and place a magnet on the side. Does all the black stuff go to the magnet? Regardless, boiler should have been skimmed after installation. Wider pic of the boiler will tell us if there's a skim port.

paradiseheat

I have attached some additional photos. Is there a skim port on there?

As to the iron - is that a problem in and of itself? Does the boiler need to be drained to get it out of there?

Abracadabra

Nope.. no skim port installed. If you check the install manual, you'll see that weil mclain reccommends a skim port be installed right where the jacket has the opening with the fiberglass behind it showing, underneath the pressuretrol and gauge. Looks like they just installed a plug there. Does that boiler have a vent damper? The WM EG series comes with one standard. Hope the boiler has a proper header.

paradiseheat

I don't know about the vent damper but don't see anything specifically that would lead me to believe there is one - it is my understanding as well that it should be included with this model. Attached are some photos of the setup from the front.

See any other problems? So far sounds like not skimmed and no vent damper, which is confirming my suspicions that there were some things that may not have been done properly.

Fred

Still can't see if there is a Hartford loop back behind that equalizer but most of the piping looks pretty good. The flue pipe looks like the boiler and water heater are tied together before they go into the chimney. I doubt if that meets code. I would think they should each terminate in the chimney so that neither appliance can exhaust back into the other. Should have a damper. Looks like it needs to be drained and cleaned and a skim port installed and a skimming. You may need to skim two or three more times over the next month so watch how they do that, after they put the skim port in.
Show us the Hartford loop in another picture.

KC_Jones

The vent damper comes with the boiler they should have installed it. You will lose some efficiency without it. The piping looks a lot better then most of what we see around here. As near as I can tell it's at least to minimum manufacturers specs. That wiring wouldn't pass in my area romex run without support like that is a no no I have always seen it run with conduit or armored cable. Not sure what the codes are in your area on that. Looks like you have an auto feeder, is there a manual bypass for it? There should be a way to manually feed the boiler without using the auto feeder and be able to valve off the feeder. I can't really tell in those pics for sure, but it looks like the only water line goes through the feeder? Without the bypass skimming will be impossible.

paradiseheat

See attached photo. I believe there is a manual feed bypass on on the top of the water feeder, and that should be the loop Fred is referencing. I think?

Assuming the water feed is ok, sounds like what we need to do is have a skim port installed and drain and skim - maybe 2-3x, and that should hopefully mitigate both the odor and the iron showing up in the gauge glass. Then also ask to have a damper installed, which comes with this model and should have been installed in the first place. Am I understanding correctly?

KC_Jones

Yep the bypass is very clear in that picture! Yes I think you have it. If you are curious about skimming you can search this site and find plenty of information about the process. Remember it's time consuming (think in hours). If you feel comfortable it is a very DIY friendly task. I look at it this way do you want to pay them their hourly rate to stand there and watch water flow? Also it is very likely on a new install that it will need to be done more than once. This is because it can take time for all the oils from new piping to work it's way back to the boiler.

Fred

Yes, The Hartford loop is there and looks good too. Do investigate how the boiler and water heater flue are tied together and, if necessary, have them seperate them and vent them seperately into the chimney. other than that it looks pretty good.

vaporvac

Also, concerning the venting. The damper will probably need a spill switch. This is code in my area, but wasn't included with my boiler. The manufacturer should be able to tell you which you need if you need one. Call their tech line. This shutz down the boiler in case the flue gets blocked so you don't die of co poisoning.

Fred

One other observation; those droplets of water in the sight glass, above the water line are a give-a-way that a skim is in order.

paradiseheat

Thank you all. Very helpful. I will look into getting a skim port installed so we can skim & take into account the other venting and electrical code issues raised.

I think my biggest concern is the vent damper, as it sounds like it should have been included, and was not. Does anyone see anything to suggest it was installed? If not, I will get in touch with my installer about this.

KC_Jones

This is essentially the same boiler as you have. You can see the vent damper in this picture. It is the device mounted to the draft hood with the round black actuator mounted to the side. It will also have wiring running to it. It comes with these boilers and was paid for as part of the boiler package. Not supposed to discuss price, but they aren't inexpensive so you paid for it, it should be installed. I should also add you can see the skim port installed in this photo as well. It is the large pipe on the side with the valve. I put a valve on mine, but that isn't necessary. All you really need is a pipe and a cap for when it isn't being used.

paradiseheat

Great. Thank you very much. Very helpful. I will chat with my installer.

j a_2

I can’t

vaporvac said:

Also, concerning the venting. The damper will probably need a spill switch. This is code in my area, but wasn't included with my boiler. The manufacturer should be able to tell you which you need if you need one. Call their tech line. This shutz down the boiler in case the flue gets blocked so you don't die of co poisoning.

The spill sw. has to be there,it is attached to the vent hood..It really has nothing to do with the vent dampener….

j a_2

Fred said:

Yes, The Hartford loop is there and looks good too. Do investigate how the boiler and water heater flue are tied together and, if necessary, have them seperate them and vent them seperately into the chimney. other than that it looks pretty good.

They can be common vented, however smaller over the larger is per nfpa..That venting looks suspect….Does the chimney meet the 7x rule, and was it sized properly….How big is the basement? do you have enough make up air…H/o take a look under the vent hood you should see two wires attached to a small silver coin size device, that is your spill sw….There is a small resettable push button that resets it, should it go off…Should that happen first find out the cause….Start with a draft test, The vent dampener is for stand by loss up the chimney….They have in the past cost many of no boiler starts….the wiring harness had issues….When you turn your t/stst up the first mechanical device to move is the vend dampener, indicated by a horizontal or hinge pin with a flat on it it should go inline with the vent dampener…If you don’t have one installed its been jumped out….Hopefully that new boiler is as new as it should be…How did the inspection go?

paradiseheat

All-

I have raised these issuesc with my installer and gotten no response. The gauge glass issue is getting worse. See attached photo. More black sediment at the bottom and what looks like a lot of staining / oil at the top.

Is this a safety issue? Is the boiler being damaged by this? Should I get someone else out to take a look & fix issues imminently if we can't get the installer back out to fix? I don't want to create a safety hazard or long term damage.

Thanks.

Fred

It's not a safety issue but it will wreak havoc with the operation of the boiler and it's ability to produce dry steam effeciently. It must be drained, flushed out and skimmed, in that order, to get all the crud out of the boiler. Required of all new boiler installations.

vaporvac

j a said:

I can’t

vaporvac said:

Also, concerning the venting. The damper will probably need a spill switch. This is code in my area, but wasn't included with my boiler. The manufacturer should be able to tell you which you need if you need one. Call their tech line. This shutz down the boiler in case the flue gets blocked so you don't die of co poisoning.

The spill sw. has to be there,it is attached to the vent hood..It really has nothing to do with the vent dampener….

Hope I didn't create confusion. My spill switch is directly under my double barometric draft, so it's visible. There's no other place for it to go. That's why I'm just a HO with a little knowledge I've learned here and you're a pro!

hydro617

Black water on a new install is normal be cause of the oils inside the boiler. But the hack.errrr installer should've skimmed it