R-Value? Thoughts?

Paul48

http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/pubs/ageng/structu/ae1373.pdf

Paul48

Hat.......Try a social experiment......Ask some folks you know, if they know the R-Value of the walls in their home. I kinda felt the same as you, then I read how they test materials to assign them an r-value.

Gordy

ME had a similar formula to find an unknown wall assemblies R value. You used thermometers with a lead under a piece of foam insulation on the wall. Much more accurate than an IR, but more involved.

Tinman

I think that's valuable information. At least, it will get you in the ballpark.

Paul48

I'm an information geek, I suppose. If you have an older house, there's no way of knowing what you have in the walls, unless you've been into them.

Gordy

it works no doubt I think you need to be cautious how you use the IR, and where you take readings.

Just did my walls they were as I figured R 15

Kind of wondering how ceiling radiant effects wall temps.

Windows with window treatments an r5

SWEI

Gordy said:

Windows with window treatments an r5

Nice. I've always questioned the standard assumptions for windows once coverings are factored in.

Gordy

It's actually huge Kurt. Thing is if the windows are old, in good condition, and functional. You can spend a boat load less on window treatments that offer some r value.

My highest reading were the cellular blinds. But anything is better than nothing.

icesailor

Its the air space between two differing spaces. Old 20 YO or older Anderson Thermopane Windows had a 1/4" airspace between glass. Newer ones have 3/8". It made a significant improvement in the R-Value.

Old heat loss calculators didn't allow for "Window Treatments" because they can be left open and then ineffective. Like attached garages are considered as Outside because you can leave the doors open and the space can become the same as the outdoors. With the doors closed, in a finished but unheated garage, the temperature is usually and considered 1/2 the outside temperature. A garage wall, shared with a conditioned wall is considered a cold outside wall. With the doors closed, you can consider it with half the loss. But who knows if the doors are always closed. Even if they are. Window treatments are like garage doors in heating. If the drapes are closed you decrease the heat loss. Leave them open, and the loss increases. In cooling,

Paul48

I thought it should work. My fear was that maybe they had not created the chart accurately. I like the way Hat' applied, what my grandfather called "Horse-sense" to it. Gonna be spray foaming those outlets Hat? Maybe one, and re-test?

SWEI

Gordy said:

My highest reading were the cellular blinds. But anything is better than nothing.

Mind if I ask what were you seeing from the window(s) with cellular shades -- and are they a single or double honeycomb design? I've pitched them to more people than I can count, but few seem to believe that the improvement they make will materially affect their fuel bills.

Gordy

singular. Just took a reading inside surface of shade 68. Backside 61. Window at the wood 51. outside temp 6*

interior wall tem 70.5

SWEI

Thanks!

If I'm interpreting the info in that PDF properly, it looks like you're seeing a bit more than R-15?

icesailor

In cooling heat gain, drapes and shades are considered significant improvements. The same should apply to heat loss.

Paul48

Anyone care to venture a guess, as to whether those huge tapestries on the walls in castles, also served as insulation?

SWEI

Absolutely! MRT in uninsulated stone buildings is brutal during cold weather.

Paul48

SWEI......I'll be a smartass here......How would one insulate a 500lb boulder?

Gordy

SWEI said:

Thanks!

If I'm interpreting the info in that PDF properly, it looks like you're seeing a bit more than R-15?

OAT was 10 at the time I wrote 6 sorry does not change much.

thats a substantial delta from 10 OAT to 68 indoor surface temp. Even window surface to interior blind surface delta.

Im really wondering if my ceiling radiant is effecting the readings.

The blinds are a burgundy so im not worried about an emmisive surface.

Ill try tonight right before a heat call see what i get.

At any rate anyone who does not believe window treatments help dramatically is missiing the boat.

DZoro

Very interesting, so much better than guessing.

Gordy

Side note my stone veneer exterior walls must be giving off the stored cold energy from last nights cold shot of -5. The wood framed exterior walls are 4 degrees warmer cloudy day. I gotta analyze this some more.