Leaking 009 backflow

ben_18

A contractor installed the 009 backflow 2 months ago. I has a copper pipe coming down from it and it is leaking with a constant drip...drip. About once a second. He says this is normal.
Another plumber came and wanted to install a new one.
What do you all think?

Here's a link to the video.
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=E3FB727F872DECFD!1808&authkey=!AFFZ3Bk8j1xNuPI&ithint=video%2cMOV

Abracadabra

Uhm.. no.. that doesn't look normal to me. Does that happen all the time or only when boiler is on?

icesailor

That's considered a commercial backflow. Maybe your jurisdiction requires that one. For residential applications, many require just a cheaper 9D type. That is an expensive valve to replace. Is it on a steam boiler or a large boiler that is using a lot of water>

They sell a rebuild kit for all the 009 backflow valves. They are stupid money. The 3/4" ones are difficult for guys with great big fingers because its hard to get the disks back properly with fat fingers.

If it is listed as a commercial boiler, and they come to check it for operation, and they find the valve dripping, they will fail it. If it drips, its not working. It has to be fixed. Its fixable with a repair kit.

http://www.watts.com/pdf/1911300.pdf

If your index finger won't go past the second joint into a standard water bottle. you will have fun. You will need patience. If your lucky, it might just be a piece of dirt. If you don't have a repair kit, it will be more than dirt.

Hilly

A relief port drip can be caused bad a couple of things. One the line may have not been flushed properly during the install and there is something in the relief port open that is permitting it to drip. There could also be a big pressure fluctuation or water hammer upsteam of your 009 which could cause a drip. That can be determined by simply closing off shutoff valve 1 and observing if it stops.
If it is commercial (and residential) the unit should be tested with backflow testing equipment by a licensed tester. They would easily be able to tell you what's wrong with the unit. If it is a fairly new install then 95% of the time it's just a matter of opening it up and cleaning all the gaskets thoroughly and wiping with a little food grade grease before re-installing. I've had 4" backflows that failed testing with as little as a pipe bur the size of an eyelash on it. Cleaned up, put it back together and it tested perfectly.

RJ_4

I would check for a water hammer and press change like Hilly said, I had a job where a 009 unit was damaged due to a water hammer condition in the bldg. kitchen 5 floors below the boiler room, we found this after replacing it twice, Installed a spring check valve ahead of the back flow and a wye strainer , stopped the problem

icesailor

Large buildings with commercial kitchens with quick acting valves (solenoids) need expansion control equipment installed to stop expansion shock waves.

RJ_4

Thanks for the feedback icesailer, I worked on the above job years ago, as the boiler contractor. We made this piping change for a temporary solution to our problem, we than told the bldg. mtc. dept. that they needed a plumbing professional to diagnose the water hammer condition sorry for not including all this information.

icesailor

@RJ:

On large commercial (usually institutional) jobs, the cold will have a check valve on the cold water inlet to the Potable Hot Water System. It is allowable (In Massachusetts) with official permission, to drill a small home in a swing gate check valve. Like a 1/4" to relieve built up heat expansion. But you really need a DHW Extrol type bladder tank connected to the hot side to account for thermal expansion and water hammer shock.

Terrible things can happen if you don't allow for it or correct for it. Sadly, the "plumbers" gave you that Deer in the Headlights stare. Like you didn't know what you were talking about.

1" and above are a piece of cake to repair. Its 3/4" and below. Especially if you have big fingers and only two hands. You need three to hold them in place. The first one goes in easy. Its the second one. I often wondered what Watts had for a Jig to hold it all together while assembly. They certainly can not economically assemble them in the same way those of us in the field do.

ben_18

Thank you for your replies. To clarify, the 009 is installed in a commercial setting. It is installed on an Eastmond FST 50 boiler. The old one was working fine and it was only installed to pass a DOB inspection. The inspection passed but the backflow has a constant drip and the contractor keeps saying it is normal. After what your'e saying that this shouldn't be happening he's going to need to fix it.

icesailor

Its not normal to drip.

Hilly

A soft-seating check or prv upstream of the 009 will stop the drip if water hammer is present or pressure fluctuations are all over the place upstream... and one of those two are the cause. If it is water hammer it would be ideal to located and manage that at the source, since that would eliminate the drip and prevent other premature system failures.