Any guesses?

Tinman

Anyone?

R Mannino

Mod/con exhaust?

Tinman

Yup. From left to right...two combustion air intakes and two exhausts. Boilers failed within 3 years.

Tinman

Large forced air company hired to replace boilers after another large forced air company installed the first 3. It doesn't make any sense. If you think this is bad, you should see the boiler room.

icesailor

Please post the evenings entertainment. Some of us need the stimulation of a good laugh.

Tinman

I would but I can't. I don't want to blow up any bridges. My bid was the high bid but I was never allowed to meet the owner. There is a Home/Estate Manager specifically for this property as well as a Mechanical Engineer and those are the only two I dealt with. They both endorsed me to the homeowner but I guess the significant difference in numbers was too much for him to pass up.
Just frustrated. Would love to see what it looks like when they're done.

KC_Jones

And Steamhead says....

Tinman

?

KC_Jones

You can't fix stupid.

Tinman

It's such a huge mistake though. This home is almost 25,000 square feet with 4 out buildings larger than my home. It's arguably the biggest, most elegant, most expensive home within 75 miles or more of Chicago. Choosing solely on price after losing BIG on the original installations just baffles me to no end. I even corrected the flawed design of the mechanical engineer and he thanked me for it. I won't let this bother me more than 24 hours and then I'll move on.

nicholas bonham-carter

The fact that the engineer thanked you for the the new information may bring some new upper end work your way, soon!
What a wonderful shot of the flues waiting to poison someone inside with CO 2! Every time the lawnmower went over that spot, everyone had headaches, "not tonight Darling, there is too much CO2"!--NBC

Gordy

What's the system? Hydro air, radiant?

Gordy

1st install lowest bidder...got screwed.
2nd install highest bidder because I got screwed by lowest last time......still got screwed.
3rd time I'll hire a M.E. And an estate manager money only left for low bidder..... Will probably get screwed again.

Makes perfect sense to me.

I wonder who wanted that buried hmmmm. Shame on the one who wanted to please them.

Abracadabra

Heh... if it's in Hinsdale I may have a guess as to which house this is! But then again, Hinsdale has quite a few monster-sized homes.. Just cause they have spent $10mill on a home doesn't mean they can't be stingy when it comes to repairs... I know it seems weird, but I've seen it happen pretty often. In fact, IMHO, those with lots of money tend to be stingier than those without as much.

mars_6

Wow just goes to show that you get what you pay for, don't it. and that may be a early grave. WOW

clammy

Love gordys quote no truer words have been written .It saz it all LOL peace and good luck clammy

Tinman

I've done a lot of work in Hinsdale and there are some incredible homes there but nothing I ever saw compares to this one. Money clearly wasn't an issue yet I priced it the same way I would for anyone.

Gordy, the mod cons are being used for all radiant heat and domestic hot water via indirects.

Something better will come along. It always and invariably happens that way.

Gordy

They missed the boat, in another three years maybe you will get a turn to do it right. Who knows maybe half way through this time around

Whats troubling is what kind of name the owner is giving radiant, or for that matter brand of boiler incorrectly installed.

icesailor

Stephen Minnich said:

Yup. From left to right...two combustion air intakes and two exhausts. Boilers failed within 3 years.

Sorry.

I didn't pick up on the significance of those pipes. I thought that they were just some PVC pipes laying on the ground. It never crossed my mind that they were a buried boiler exhaust/intake terminations. Never in my wildest dreams.

So, they have no inspectional services in this location? Every heating appliance I have ever seen has a minimum termination of 1' above the ground, PLUS the snow load added. I am to assume that there is no snowfall in this location? When those boilers/furnaces failed early, I'm sure that the penny pinching owner wanted the appliance manufacturer to make good on a warranty against failure. Voices were raised during that discussion when the manufacturer declared it wasn't installed according to the I/O manual so the warranty was null and voided. It was nice of the Mow & Blow Amigo's with their Zero Turn Mowers to trim those annoying pipes on the ground. And the Amigo's with their gas powered blowers were sure to blow the leaves and grass clippings into those convenient leave containers left there for their use. I'm quite sure that when they came by in the fall with their vacuum leaf collectors, they made a special effort to park right over those pipes to suck the leaves out. I mean after all, the leaves MIGHT fall into the open pipes. If there's any obstructions nearby like annoying hedges, they probably rake the leaves out of the hedges and park them over the pipes. Waiting for the vacuum bagger. Because some of the leaves magically disappear into the ground. Then, there's the issue of the humidity is higher, the closer you get to the ground. Think Ground Fog. And cross contamination from the exhaust to the intake. Not to be alarmed.

I could make up a lot of interesting scenarios I have seen. Consider that you didn't get the job as a blessing. Just because a job means you will handle a lot of money, doesn't mean you will keep any of it. As soon as you found the faults in the plans and told the ME about them, you were toast. He would have had to tell someone that he made a mistake. It would have been the second mistake he ever made in his life. The first being the time he thought he was wrong, but came to find out that he was right. You not getting the job meant his almost perfect record stayed intact.
Maybe someday, they can get Mike Holmes and his crew down from Canada to come down and fix it. Do a show on it on it and we can all be entertained.

Who got "encouraged" to pass all this stuff?

Gordy

It probably got changed after an inspection.

Gordy

I wonder how many rodents are dead inside there.

Tinman

The brand name of the 3 boilers that are being replaced has already been raked through the mud endlessly.

No boiler would have survived that kind of flue gas recirculation. And to this day, correcting that disaster remains too low on the list of priorities of those making the decisions.

One of the reasons my bid was higher is that I disregarded the way I was told to bid the job because I knew it it wouldn't work and/or it was dangerous. They wanted all the bids to be the same. I don't work that way. I make it a point to differentiate from the pack.

If it were just about money for me, I would've have bid the job exactly as I was told.

How does 7 zones of radiant sound with 4 vastly different floor finishes and R-values sound for using only one mixing valve?

How about the fact that nobody has done a load calculation, including myself, not the mechanical engineer either. I asked and asked to get access to the house for a few hours but was never given permission. We finally agreed that if I was awarded the job, that it was a must that I do one and adjust the bid accordingly.

My gut says this will end poorly.

Gordy

So you did get to see the mechanical room, or not? Seems you did. But maybe only on paper.

Tinman

I did get to see it back in November. As I took a very long walk from the service entrance to the mechanical room, I noticed an indoor basketball court with hardwood floors, walked on the thickest carpeting I've ever walked on, stone floors in bathrooms, etc. and this was all in the basement.

It was my only chance to see everything. I took a lot pictures but that was it. My competition based their bids on a drawing of the new piping (which was wrong) that the M.E. provided. I can't think of a more dramatic case of being penny wise and pound foolish.

Tinman

It's all just sour grapes on my part. Fact is, I have no control over what others do.

Harvey Ramer

Sounds like one of those places where they buy the sizzle without paying to much attention to the steak.

icesailor

Smart to take the walk when they know there are issues but give you a verbal OK of understanding that there are problems and you will be allowed to fix them.

Unless it is in writing, they will never admit that you told them of the problems.

When it comes to money and lying, there is no level low enough that an architect/designer or GC will go to. To pick your pockets.

Tinman

I try to do as much of the communicating via email when it comes to issues like these, which I certainly did in this case, so there is always documentation that way. I have my "suggestions" and their responses. On my proposal, sent via email with a number of responses, I put in red, bold letters that the venting issues MUST be addressed and the reasons why.

The first guy who trained me a long time ago always said to me "always cover your a@#", and I do.

clammy

i see alot of this on large homes in my area and it,s a disgrace and a big dirty daiper stain to every one who is a craftmans and takes pride in what they no less the indusrty .With all the commidities that are traded these days between people there s always a lack of people who care about the trade they do or take pride in what they do .All boilers down to the almighty dollar moolah and the haves and have nots .It really boiler down to nobody drives past these homes and wonder how good of a heating or cooling system they have there to busy looking at the paver driveway and 200 grand kitchen thats what really matters and when they sell that home the first thing to get redone is that hi end kitchen s and bath ,nobodies looking at the mech till there no working and then lets do it cheap .Funny stuff i see it alot theres aton of money and plently of well offs in north jersey and most ( 90 %) have some real garbage looking like a hit and run accident and there content .There are some that are nice but it always seems the original installers won t come back no more wonder why .LOL peace and good luck clammy loved the post steve

Tinman

Thanks Clammy. Last week I installed a cast iron boiler for someone on the other side of the financial spectrum and he tried to tip me. If nothing else, I find the entire game interesting.

Tinman

I learned an extremely valuable lesson this past year. Unfortunately, I had to make the mistake twice before it sunk into my thick head. The lesson is that I will never go the extra mile to get a job unless I'm dealing directly with the decision maker. The guys who hang out here aren't commodities, including myself.

Harvey Ramer

Stephen Minnich said:

I learned an extremely valuable lesson this past year. Unfortunately, I had to make the mistake twice before it sunk into my thick head. The lesson is that I will never go the extra mile to get a job unless I'm dealing directly with the decision maker. The guys who hang out here aren't commodities, including myself.

I approach things the same way. If I can't talk the person who can say yes or no, I walk away. If they are to important to be bothered with listening to my recommendations and plans, I would just as soon not bother with them either.

I have worked for some incredibly wealthy people. One in particular sticks in my mind. He is the owner of Moss Neck Manor in Virginia. He brought me coffee every morning at 9:00. We would drink the coffee and chat for a while, then he helped me work for a couple hours and then went about his day. I would see him the next morning at 9.

Harvey