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tigerloop

Bob_115
Bob_115 Member Posts: 36
My oil pump has no provisions for a second line. Can I install a tiger loop using the bleeder port?

Comments

  • Kakashi
    Kakashi Member Posts: 88
    What kind of pump do you have?
  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
    Your oil pump most certainly has provisions for a second line. It is almost always on the bottom. And to convert it to a two pipe system like a Tigerloop, you need to get the bypass plug to install in it.

    I have never seen an oil pump for a power burner that had an oil pump that didn't have the by-pass plug port. It will be on the bottom because the plug goes straight up.

    The bottom port is another inlet plug until you install the bypass plug. Once you install the bypass plug, if you don't connect a return line back to the tank or a Tigerloop, it will immediately blow the oil seal out of the pump and start leaking.
  • billtwocase
    billtwocase Member Posts: 2,385
    That's a new one to me. Every pump has By-pass capability, and no, never use the bleeder port to add a second line
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 5,324
    That's a new one to me. Every pump has By-pass capability, and no, never use the bleeder port to add a second line
    Not even on a danfoss BFPH?
    steve
  • billtwocase
    billtwocase Member Posts: 2,385
    Yes Steve, the bleeder port turns into a return on that oddball pump. They fail long before they can be set up for by-pass :)
    icesailor
  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
    The best repair for a Danfoss pump is a new Suntec A2VA
    AlCorelliNY
  • Bob_115
    Bob_115 Member Posts: 36
    Yes the pump is a danfoss bfph pump installed to replace a failed sunstrand pump. Ever since we are getting smells from the burner.
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 5,324
    I knew you, billtwocase, as well of most of the Wallies, were aware of this. I only bought up the Danfoss because the OP didn't see a return port, and because I had to do this last year, on a Ducane furnace.
    steve
  • billtwocase
    billtwocase Member Posts: 2,385
    I know you have paid you dues here Paul. You have been here a long time also. Bob, what is the pump pressure on the new pump, and what does your unit call for? Pumps come set at 100 PSI. Many out there are running 140 on up. Unless there is a leak, there shouldn't be an oil smell, unless there is barely a flame with low pump pressure
    icesailor
  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
    Bob said:

    Yes the pump is a danfoss bfph pump installed to replace a failed sunstrand pump. Ever since we are getting smells from the burner.

    What did the Suntec pump do that warranted its condemnation?

    Maybe the problem wasn't the pump. If you are having a problem now, maybe the problem was already there. How did you determine that the pump was bad. Did you use a pump tester on it?

    How much pump pressure was the old pump pressure set at and the new one? Did you check it? Is the nozzle strainer plugging up and you don't have the set pump pressure at the nozzle orifice, after the strainer? There's no way to check the pressure there.

    I've smelled oil when the strainer was clogging up. The air fuel ratio goes South and it gets really lean on fuel and smokes or stinks from unburned fuel.

    Is the reason you want to use the Tigerloop because you think you are getting air? Check the nozzle strainer. Its not the pump.

    Bob_115
  • Bob_115
    Bob_115 Member Posts: 36
    The old pump would not pull the fuel any more. It was set at 95 psi. The new pump is set at 100 psi.The boiler has since been cleaned and a new nozzle and tune up have been performed. As of late the smells have been diminished. Occasionaly it seems that the flame takes long too stop after the burner shuts off.
  • Bob_115
    Bob_115 Member Posts: 36
    I was thinking that the tigerloop would keep the vacuum lower on the pump and help to prevent the seal from failing and keep the fuel from dribbling into the chamber as per their literature. Perhaps then the smells would end.
  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
    If the flame stays after the burner stops, its usually air in the system between the pump and the nozzle. Also, it is a way to tell that the nozzle strainer is plugging up.

    If the old pump was set for 95#, it was too low. How did you check it? Did you check the vacuum on the suction/inlet side of the pump? Do you have POS filters and not Spin-On's? Most Spin-On's have a 1/8" tapping for a "restriction gauge". If the filter is restricted, and the vacuum goes up, the nozzle pressure can go down.

    The best way to test a pump is with a Mitco "Quik Chek" pump tester.

    If the nozzle strainer is plugged, it holds back pressure against the pump cut off valve. Not until the internal discharge pressure gets to the cut-off pressure will the valve close and stop the flow. Unless there is compressed gas/air in the line.

    Its my unsubstantiated and personal opinion that if you have a very low flow nozzle, and high pump pressure with a plugged nozzle strainer, that the pressure will out gas the fuel product and cause gas bubbles in the product between the pump discharge and the nozzle. Which make it do what you describe.

    My rule of Pumps:

    The higher the pressure, the lower the delivery.

    The higher the vacuum, the lower the pressure and delivery.

    All pumps, regardless of what they are, only can deliver a certain unit of "X". If 'X" equals 10, then if there is no vacuum on the suction, it can deliver 10. As the vacuum goes up, the pump can't deliver 10. If the vacuum gets too high, "X" becomes zero. Same with the pressure. If the pressure gets set higher than the pump can deliver, the 10 becomes zero. The same applies to piston displacement pumps. If the vacuum is too high, they knock and don't pump water. If the pressure is too high, it stops the pump because of a hydraulic lock.

    All pumps operate somewhere in the middle. Including hydronic circulator pumps.

    IMO.
    Bob_115
  • Bob_115
    Bob_115 Member Posts: 36
    The nozzle was replaced about two weeks ago along with a new filter .The new pump was set to 100 psi . However we are getting some odors from the burner intermittently . Should I change the pump . Could the cutoff not be working correctly or will a tigerloop help this problem
  • Bob Bona_4
    Bob Bona_4 Member Posts: 2,083
    Bob, a determination can't be made until you can measure your vacuum reading. This is indoor tank or outdoor? Gravity fed supply or overhead? Check valves? Describe the fuel piping. You also would want a gauge to check cutoff. This is really straying into trained tech territory.
  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
    Bob said:

    The nozzle was replaced about two weeks ago along with a new filter .The new pump was set to 100 psi . However we are getting some odors from the burner intermittently . Should I change the pump . Could the cutoff not be working correctly or will a tigerloop help this problem

    You still don't get what I am saying about nozzle strainers. There is no way to test if they are getting clogged up. I have seen them plug up substantially in 10 minutes if the oil wasn't pure red. A slight tinge of black and they could plug up.

    The only way I learned was by noticing that whenever I took the electrode/nozzle assembly out of the tube, I held the nozzle end UP and let the oil run out into a can. Sometimes, the oil wouldn't run out of the end of the tube. The sludge held the vacuum in the tube. When I changed a nozzle, I noticed that if I was playing fun with nozzles, and I hels the assembly up to drain it, the oil ran out rapidly. I then noticed that if I had a new nozzle that didn't let the oil out rapidly, after running for some period, if I just changed the strainer (because I didn't have another identical nozzle), the oil would run rapidly out. So, the strainer was dirty. You can't reasonably clean it.

    It doesn't matter if it was changed two weeks ago. If you have POS filters, and a dirty, sludged oil line, they can plug in a moment. And it doesn't get trapped by the pump strainer mesh.

    A good oil burner tech, before changing the fuel pump, would be checking the pump to see if it pumps to specifications, and doing a CA on the burner. Change the nozzle and see if the numbers change. Unless a Tech diagnosis all about the pump and proves that it is defective, he's just a parts changer. IMO, unless a pump tester was used on it, I personally am suspect that the old pump was bad. Especially if you have the same symptoms with the new pump.

    For what it is worth.