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Balancing valves

cutter
cutter Member Posts: 279
Years ago I was told to install balancing cocks on the return lines to the boiler. I can not find those anymore, what I am seeing now are balancing valves.

Caleffi makes a couple of nice ones, a little pricey though.
Anyone have any suggestions for a reliable trouble free valve?

Comments

  • RJ_4
    RJ_4 Member Posts: 484
    DeZuric
    RJ
  • cutter
    cutter Member Posts: 279
    I did not put enough information in my asking about balancing valves. What I am trying to do is modernize a home heating system with a hot water boiler of 100,000 BTU'S. The system has four zone valves and two zones that will have it's own circulating pump. I am trying to figure the best way to get the 15 to 20 degree temperature difference between the supply and return lines. Anyone have any suggestions.
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 5,177
    How many zones? 4 w/ valves and 2 w/ circs? Post a diagram of what you are trying to accomplish so we can help you more. Also, what are the btu requirements for each zone. Gas or Oil? What size pipe......etc., etc.,
    steve
  • cutter
    cutter Member Posts: 279
    Steve, I will draw what I am trying to do. I want to re-plumb my entire system but keep my existing boilers. I appreciate any help I can get.
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
    Hang in there. I think we can probably set you straight.
  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
    "" I did not put enough information in my asking about balancing valves. What I am trying to do is modernize a home heating system with a hot water boiler of 100,000 BTU'S. The system has four zone valves and two zones that will have it's own circulating pump. I am trying to figure the best way to get the 15 to 20 degree temperature difference between the supply and return lines. Anyone have any suggestions. ""

    Every day, I when I stop at a stop light and wait for the light to go green, I see people all around me mat it to get away, so they can beat me to the next stop light where we can all wait for the next light to go green and we can start over again.

    I know that my little four cylinder turbocharged engine can blow the doors off of 99% of anyone waiting if I want to let the Turbo do its boosting thingy. But I would be watching the MPG's display take a big drop on its average.

    Delta T is the latest Rubix Cube of heating. Everyone wants one, few can solve it.

    If you have a 10,000 square foot house, and you are designing from scratch, you can maybe obtain it. If you have a 2,000 with multiple zones, already there, you might as well try to go out and disprove what all sailors know. You can't pee into the wind and not get it on you.
  • cutter
    cutter Member Posts: 279
    icesailor, I put this system in 30 years ago and it has heated my house, maybe not the most economical way, but it got the job done. When I said earlier that I want to re-plumb the entire system that was kind of a miss statement, or a slip of the fingers. I want to just re-plumb my boiler room. There are things that I did not put in the design years ago that I would like to put in now. And there have been improvements in hot water heating systems that I would like to install also. This house started out with 4 zones in the house that I used and one for the garage that I never finished. Since then I added onto the house and want to install 2 more zones for in-floor heating. I can not pipe in the 2 additional zones without re-piping the boiler room. This time I would like to do it right or at least better than I did last time. I would like a modern boiler room, that is what you can see. What is in the floors and along the walls has worked before so it should continue to work in the future so there is no use messing with that.

    I have almost got what I have in the house written out and drawn and will post it soon.
  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
    @cutter:

    My wife has a saying:

    You can have anything you want. Just not everything.

    You can take that out as far as you want. Some of us might come from a point of view that has a lot to do with what we can sell. How much is it worth, and how much is it worth doing. Its hard to envision what something totally looks like from a description or a few disconnected photographs. My approach might have been wrong, but I would never suggest a total re-piping of a system or a boiler room to add two radiant zones. Especially if you have a zone that isn't being used.

    The challenge for me has always been, how can I add what they want and the cost be reasonable so I get the job. We enjoy what we do. There's a fine line between a groove and a rut. There's a fine line between our job being a hobby or a job. If we enjoy what we do too much, is it a hobby? You will figure out what you will do. But is that unused zone bigger than you need for your radiant? I'll bet it is. You can run a lot of BTU's through a 3/4" pipe.
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 14,865
    cutter said:

    icesailor, I put this system in 30 years ago and it has heated my house, maybe not the most economical way, but it got the job done. When I said earlier that I want to re-plumb the entire system that was kind of a miss statement, or a slip of the fingers. I want to just re-plumb my boiler room. There are things that I did not put in the design years ago that I would like to put in now. And there have been improvements in hot water heating systems that I would like to install also. This house started out with 4 zones in the house that I used and one for the garage that I never finished. Since then I added onto the house and want to install 2 more zones for in-floor heating. I can not pipe in the 2 additional zones without re-piping the boiler room. This time I would like to do it right or at least better than I did last time. I would like a modern boiler room, that is what you can see. What is in the floors and along the walls has worked before so it should continue to work in the future so there is no use messing with that.

    I have almost got what I have in the house written out and drawn and will post it soon.

    My advice would be to find the highest efficiency equipment you are comfortable with. Size it as accurately as possible. Consider a buffer tank or a high volume type boiler, if you have multiple zones with a wide range of BTU load conditions.

    It it is zoned with valves I believe the ∆P pump in the correct mode is the very best way to circulate. I'm not convinced the system needs to work around a designed ∆T. A spent several days quizzing emitter manufacturers about that concept.

    ∆P with TRVs may in fact be the ideal control method if you have a means of blending that with the "look" you are comfortable with. Paul Pollets Advanced radiant out Seattle way, has one of the best methods I have seen with the Oventrop UniBox for TRV zoned radiant.

    Another often over-looked part of the boiler and near boiler piping is insulation. My next home or job will be insulated, maybe even by a pro if i have the $$. I like to look of a top quality pipe insulation job.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream