Overfilling boiler

wmtandson

I,m a H VAC contractor who has not had much exposer to steam(wishing I had) but I get those calls....
Recently I helped out a homeowner who had a over filling issue after a new steam boiler was installed.
I repipied the feeder ,included a check valve,lowered the pressurertrol to 2 psi and set the feeder delay to 2 min to allow condensate time to return
All seemed good ,Customer was elated we had solved the issue,,,Fast forward 2 weeks ---coldest temps this season and she calls and says the demons are back

I,m heading over tomorrow to take pictures and readjust things,I know its a piping nightmare so I will need your help.
the installing contractor will not answer her calls --he admitted it was over his head.

the house has been converted from coal to oil to gas 100 plus years in the doing

Pictures to follow

Fred

Skim the boiler. It sounds like there are oils in the boiler water from the new boiler and any new piping that was installed. it sits on top of the boiler water and when the boiler runs, it gets pushed into the header and returns, the Low Water Cut-off kicks in and shuts the boiler off, then the auto water feeder adds water. When the boiler finishes a cycle, all the condensate returns to the boiler and it is overfilled.
There should be a skim port on the boiler above the water line. it is a slow procees (several hours and maybe it will hve to be done more than once but it is an easy process.

BobC

The autofeeder might have something on it's valve seat that is letting water seep by or if the boiler has a tankless coil in it that might have a pinhole in it that is slowly feeding water into the boiler.

Try shutting the water feed to the autofeeder off and put a clothes pin on the gauge glass. Ask the home owner to check the boiler and report if the water level starts to rise or fall.

Bob

wmtandson

The boiler is a Crown with Hydrolevel Lwco and feeder
if Memory serves me I think its a 128k which I would think is small for the house.
I will record and document whatever you gents ask for
I admit I,m lost ,,but willing to learn.
Since it took weeks to develop I believe the problem is solvable.
The homeowner wants to understand why this has happened
the house is old ,pipes uninsulated and it has returns from each radiator which are smaller pipes than I normally see

Fred

The fact that it did take weeks to redevelop is the reason I suspect it needs a good skim. Typically a defective water feed will cause the flooding in a day or two. When you get there, drain the boiler down to its normal level and fire it up. See if the water in the glass bounces irratically and gets to a point when the burner shuts down and the water feeder adds water. That will be a good indicator that it needss a skim, but @Hattersguy could be right too. he has had some experience with the LWCO probe being to close to the Normal Water line.

wmtandson

I watched it the last time I was there it cycled several times and the water level always returned to the normal level which I marked in magic marker per install manual.
I did not experience the feeder going on at any time (but it was warmer outside than today)
I will video the water line tomorrow during my time there

Fred

Have the owner turn the thermostat up enough that the boiler getss to run for 15 minutes or so.

wmtandson

Boiler manufacturer placed the probe where they do
I will get the info on the feeder tomorrow

nicholas bonham-carter

When you say the radiator piping is smaller than expected, could it be a two-pipe system? If so, then check any traps, radiator, and crossover. Those have to work, for air to get out at each cycle.--NBC

wmtandson

OK
I believe I need some insight
Went back and watched boiler run
seems it has not overfilled since we moved and repiped in the water feeder
Turns out that a piece of baseboard need rep itching to drain back the water
We watched the boiler run for about 15 min-after 1 min the sight glass was very low --at about 2 min the water returned to the level it had been before and seems like that what is repeated over and over and over
I set the psi at 2 with .5 dif I took pictures of the piping and hoe you can shed lite on the evolution of this 100+ year old system
P.S no provision for skimming (I will have to add that)

wmtandson

this is someones Idea of a header

wmtandson

Also need help identifying this valve setup which does not work anymore(cold )

Fred

It goes without saying that the Near Boiler piping needs to be corrected but what you saw in the sight glass does mean it needs skimming to get the oils off the surface of the water which just exacerbates the wet steam.

wmtandson

I will plan on installing a skimming location at the waterline

wmtandson

Fred
When I skim the boiler is it also good to add a chemical treatment?
which would you suggest?

Fred

I wouldn't add anything until you get all the oils out and that may require you to go back and skim it a couple more times at two week intervals. After that, once you see the water in the sight glass water stabilize to no more than 1/2 to 3/4 inch bounce, you can add just 1 Steamaster tablet (available from Supplyhouse.com) Do not use the dosage recommended on the bottle. That is a water conditioner that will keep the PH level of the water where you want it to minimize corrosion.

wmtandson

great
I,m looking for information on the Radiators and the valves that operate them so i can keep this customer happy.
I,m not seeing many steam systems here in jersey so I,m learning

wmtandson

this one

Fred

It looks like some type of wroght iron/tube type radiator with a standard 1-1/4 supply valve and a trap on it. I think if you put up another Post with a heading "Can you identify this radiator and valve/trap" You'll get a quick answer. @steamhead and @Jstar can probably tell you immediately what it is and how to service it.

JStar

That radiator looks like a Bundy or A.A.Griffing set up for two-pipe air-vent operation.

@wmtandson If you ever want a second pair of eyes on a steam system, I'd be happy to help.

wmtandson

Jstar
that is what I,m hoping.
This customer loves the old stuff they have,they are interested in repairing and preserving
my contact is billsr@wmtandson.com

wmtandson

JStar said:

That radiator looks like a Bundy or A.A.Griffing set up for two-pipe air-vent operation.

@wmtandson If you ever want a second pair of eyes on a steam system, I'd be happy to help.

I,m sure its a A A griffin but I,m not furmiliar with the 2 pipe air-vent operation
any help would be a blessing

nicholas bonham-carter

Why not get a copy of the steam books from the shop here, which will explain many things about our wonderful systems.--NBC

wmtandson

I am scheduled for a seminar
and need to start reading

nicholas bonham-carter

That's great that you are helping people save their system from incompetent knuckleheads, and picking up some knowledge yourself.
If only all other professionals had the same attitude!--NBC

wmtandson

customer is hesitant about incurring additional service call fees.
TYPICAL

Fred

wmtandson said:

customer is hesitant about incurring additional service call fees.
TYPICAL

Customer must not be that interested in preservation then.

nicholas bonham-carter

What alternative do they have-let the system misbehave?
Those old vapor system, when properly cared for were amongst the most economical, even, and quiet--NBC

wmtandson

I,m going to install a skimming point and add some steam aster tablets
then I need to find someone who can instruct or do the repairs on the piping and radiators/returns